Original/Reproduction Smog Setups for '69 Z28??

[69Z28-RS]

I've owned my '69 Z28/RS since 1976.   it's an original car, 95% complete (missing the smog).  It's unrestored, and I want to retain it's unrestored status, although I am doing some cleanup and *preserving* in getting it back on the road (it's been stored in my garage for 32 yrs).   I have new ceramic coated headers which I'd planned to use to replace the rusted out hedmans I removed.  I also have an extremely nice set of '69 exhaust manifolds (removed on day 1 from a friend's '69 Z28) which I *could* use if I wanted to put it back to 'factory configuration'.  My problem:   Since I don't have the smog setup, and know essentially nilch about them, I'm not clear on what is correct, acceptable, or unacceptable.   
The Parts Place (illinois?) has an ebay listing for a smog system supposedly correct for '69 and '70 Z28s.  Combination of original restored and new components for $795 BIN.    They supposedly have 15 such systems.   I'm interested in what you fellas, much more knowledgable than I on smog setups, think about this system.    Should I buy one and put it on my unrestored (but smogless) Z28?   Am I adding 'correctness' if I do so, or am I just adversely impacting the 'unrestored' status of my car?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270361054902?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Gary  / 69Z28-RS

[Charley]

Man I would love to see pics of your car.

[Steve68]

Have you read this CRG report?

http://www.camaros.org/emissions.shtml

Steve

[HOT3O2]

Gary, The pumps do have a julian date code on them so you want to keep that in mind. The tuff part to get is the correct pulley. They can be very costly.

[m22mike]

Gary
 Please call and talk to Bill Hodel in Massillon Ohio. #330-832-0871      He may be helpfull in putting a survivor system together for you, lot's of people know him and have used him.
 And yes, show us the car  :>)

Mike

[tmodel66]

He has the correct pulley listed but it's probably a repop for that price. Gary get in touch with Pacecar Jeff if you want a correct used set up.

[69Z28-RS]

Thanks for the information guys!   I'll followup with the contacts mentioned. 
I don't have a lot of photos, but I think I have an 'older' photo from the 80's (pushed out of the garage)..   and a more recent photo inside my newer garage.  I'll post those but soon (hopefully) I'll have it all back together and ready for more photos.   I'm hoping to take it to the Camaro nationals some year soon for judging..

Gary

[z28z11]

Check out the Parts Place, Inc. also for spot-on repop pulleys. Decent pricing, too. Complete systems are available (turnkey, less manifolds).

You can put together a correct system for a lot less money than some of the suppliers ask - takes some creative scrounging, but it can be done ( I have three smog cars - thanks goodness for one automatic - ).

Regards,
Steve

[z28z11]

I should have added that I have bought from them before - your original post mentioned them (I was confirming them as a source).

$79.00 for the 2458 pulley is a heck of a lot better than the ones I have seen advertised at $600 - $1200 NOS (and higher). I guess it depends on your desire to keep it as a survivor or what level of restoration you want to accomplish or have it judged for.

Regards,
Steve

[HOT3O2]

Steve, Would you happen to have a pic of one of those repop pulleys?

Rick

[MO]

Might check with Jerry MacNeish too.

[z28z11]

Several listed on eBay, from ink-stamped later production to originals - don't get me wrong, I would always rather have original GM over repops (any day of the week), but in light of the fact I don't want to spend $600 on a pulley when I can get a decent repro of one, good price, I'll bite until I can find an original.

The 2 pics attached - one that I pirated from Parts Place, the other is a current eBay listing at $599.00. I saw Pacecar Jeff's listings on there as well. I would rather have the stamped versions as closer to the originals than the ink-stamped ones myself. Note the stamping on the repop is pretty close in font and position to the pic of an original, with the original added "P" stamp at 120 degrees. (at least I belive it's an original - one never knows !)

The disclaimer - this is always my own opinion - everyone has a different one -

Regards,
Steve

[z28z11]

Beg your pardon - the "original" pulley pic on eBay is not $599.00 - it's $999.00. The other "original" at $599.00 is an ink-stamped version.

Regards,
Steve

[69Z28-RS]

Man I would love to see pics of your car.

   
Charley, it doesn't look like much now it's been sitting so long.   Attached below is a photo from sometime in the 80's when I pushed the car out of the basement garage to wash the dust/dirt off.  (I haven't driven it since Dec of 1980)
The second photo is from oct 2007, I'd moved and now the car is sitting in a different basement garage.  The front part of the hood had had prior 'bondo' for a softball dent' and was cracking, so I smeared paint over it and in the cracks..
The last two photos are from Oct 2008; I'd removed the hood and had stripped the bondo from it (it will need at least the front portion repainted).   Left front and right front views are shown when I pushed the car out for another 'washing'..
Those are the last photos I have with the car 'more of less whole' as I've been removing parts and cleaning for reinstallation since then (as I've had time)...  I do have lots of 'detailed and parts' photos if anyone has any desire to see them...
Gary

[HOT3O2]

Steve,  Thanks for the pic's. Boy $1000 for that pulley? That's half of what I paid for my car back in the day.

[x77-69z28]

Absolutely my favorite color combo, period! With a car that original, you have to use original parts, NO REPRO!!!! Call Jerry, and have him put together a non functional system. P.s. can I have it!

[69Z28-RS]

Thanks.  Why does everyone want me to give them my car?? 

I have no intention of using reproduction parts (except for some rubber items that need replacement - ie. body mounts, hoses).
I like the color combination too (that was the color of the GM Camaro Z28 advertisements of 1969!).. but the first time I looked at the car, and saw the orange/black interior.. I was a bit turned off...  but I came around once I realized how rare a coupe was with the org/blk, plus the number of options this car had (cowl hood, gauges/tach, remote mirror, all tinted glass, RS, etc).  The engine needed rebuilding when I bought it, so I actually got a couple hundred boot by trading a strong running, but 'base' '68 Z28..

Gary

[z28z11]

Steve,  Thanks for the pic's. Boy $1000 for that pulley? That's half of what I paid for my car back in the day.

Rick,

Ditto on the pulley price. I bought my X77 in 1973 for $1600 - original except for the missing smog system - everything else was there. First thing I bought for the car was a new GM ZL2 hood (for $86.00). If we had only known then -

Regards,
Steve

[HOT3O2]

Yes those were the days Steve. Guys were pulling off smog pumps, exhaust manifolds, distributors, air cleaners  and throwing them out and buying "Cal Custom" stuff. Like you said. "If we only knew".

Rick

[z28z11]

I was lucky (don't read as smart !) enough to keep my Z pretty intact with original parts. I did, however, briefly consider cutting the roof for Hurst aftermarket T tops a la the "Smokey and the Bandit" Firechicken - no lie. I have a terrible inclination to hurl recent meals everytime I think about it. I even offered the car on a straight trade for a all steel '34 5 window (gulp) Ford street rod that was mostly held together with baling wire, but the guy thought his Ford was worth more than the Z, so he declined. Around '76 - '77.

Didn't mean to digress, but seeing Gary's wonderful RS Z brought back a lot of memories - I'm glad to know there are sensible people still around -

Regards,
Steve

[69Z28-RS]

Well, I'm not that sensible Steve... 
I built my engine using some 11.7 Forgedtrue pistons I had from another engine (30 over), and bought angle plug heads (selling my original heads)..  Yes, it was FAST... ... but when the gas issues began and octane lowered, I had trouble keeping it going.   that was the reason I parked it.   i also installed a Mallory RevPol distributor and Judson Electronic magneto to get spark (it would rev easily to 8 G on the street...     (Everyone who remembers me giving them rides said I scared the hell out of them...    including my little brothers and sisters (now all grown of course!  )..

Fortunately I kept the original distributor (loose but rebuildable), but can't find the coil that was in it..  I bought a bunch of NOS parts that I never used (so I have those, although I'm incliined to leave the good original pieces in place.   I think I drilled a couple of extra holes in the firewall (that I'm gonna need some help determining - I remember trying to find original holes to mount it, but there seems to be a couple 'extra' now..

I've got almost everything off the firewall now; trying to determine if I need to rebuild the booster (and who to send it to); I think it works, but when I cleaned off the 'aftermarket' black paint on it, I found residue of gold cad, but also some areas tending towards surface rust...?    I removed the Windshield wiper motor tonight; I probably need to get it rebuilt, as my wipers never worked.. (did you know if you went fast enough, the water just 'hurries off the windshield')??   *G*   If someone can give me a few pointers on how to check out the wiper motor and pump (it's an RS) on the bench, I'd love to check it out before I just send it off to be rebuilt.
PS.  When I removed the booster and wiper motor, I also found an 'extra' T stamp behind the booster..  which makes TWO T stamps on the drivers side, along with the P and B..  but I have never found the P T B stamps on the passenger side...?  maybe I stupidly sprayed black over them in the 70's?   I don't recall ever seeing any of these stamps until a year or so ago, when I checked and found the drivers side ones..  I was looking for Horsepower..  not PTB stamps back then..

Gary

[dannystarr]

69Z28-RS, I think I have a couple coils in my storage. I can't think of the number right now. 293 BR?? Or is it 270? Anyway, I will be selling all that stuff this year if you need a coil LMK.... Danny

[z28z11]

Gary,
 
I didn't really go into great detail about what I did to mine, but there are a few similarities with your story. I rebuilt my 302 in '75, using the original heads/intake and crank/rods, but I used Manley 12.5:1 pistons, and polished the rods. Removed the original manifolds (stored them !) and added headers, replaced cam with a Sig Erson stick, a Mallory dual point with a Mallory coil, and pulled the 4053 carb and added an 850 DP, Mr. Gasket Pro Shifter on the original Muncie. Yeah, it ran like a proverbial scalded dog (sorry, PETA), but at that time and my age, who thought about restoration ? I was lucky to have saved what I did. 1980 was the awakening point for me - realized I had an X77 Z, got the documentation from the DOT (dealer invoice, MSO, title copies), and then started about collecting NOS parts to restore the car, and been at it ever since, adding cars and parts to the garage over the years.

If your wiper motor is the original, be careful with it - one year only part number I believe, RS headlight washer valve, rare to see them intact. I've rebuilt a couple of them - Impala Bob's is the only place reproducing the valve (beat me to it, I tried for years to build the molds to reproduce the valves as I have a Z11); do not swap your core motor for another, as they are stamped with the correct number on the bearing cover end plate - pretty costl;y to replace. 293BR is the correct coil for the stock 302.

Regards,
Steve   

[69Z28-RS]

Thanks for the information fellas!  It helps knowing other guys who've had their Z28's for a long while..

Gary

[427-KING]

have 2-3 survivor z systems, need to weed through what i need may have at least one to sell.   Also have a nice reproduction system, I dont think you want to put a replacement system with a black fan on a survivor ? 

[69Z28-RS]

No, I want 'nice used' if possible.. if I can afford it..

Gary / 69Z28-RS

[KurtS]

It's not like it's an untouched engine that you're adding the finishing touch. With the history of the engine, I'd just put on the headers and call it good. Or the manifolds if you want.

[427-KING]

Kurt promoting non originality?.....Oh my gosh.....!!

[69Z28-RS]

I doubt there's an 'untouched' Z28 302 engine in existence...   

Gary

[BULLITT65]

I think there is a few out there. They are not members of the CRG...lol.
Kurt I think you have done what you needed/wanted to do to keep your car original.
I can't find fault with what Gary is trying to do, I think anyone of us would be doing the same.
That being said I hope the 427 King helps out a fellow CRG member here , and doesn't charge him his standard pricing. It is his prerogative though...
I think we work best when work together. Right?

[77thor]

It's not like it's an untouched engine that you're adding the finishing touch. With the history of the engine, I'd just put on the headers and call it good. Or the manifolds if you want.

I totally agree with Kurt on this. I'm sure you could find better things to spend your money on.

[BULLITT65]

I am curious Thor, what better things would you put the money towards? (I am guessing you are still referring to the car, and not in general)

[77thor]

I am curious Thor, what better things would you put the money towards? (I am guessing you are still referring to the car, and not in general)

Yes, I am referring to the car...
In my experience for a 40+ year old car, there is always something... then again mine gets driven.

[BULLITT65]

So a decent price for the smog system would be in the $500 ball park, maybe a little more? What would be a better area for him to put it towards his car, or since you don;t know his and your trying to make yours more correct what would you put $500 towards?

[427-KING]

"So a decent price for the smog system would be in the $500 ball park".........To be honest that wouldnt  buy a decent pulley for the smog.

[firstgenaddict]

So a decent price for the smog system would be in the $500 ball park, maybe a little more? What would be a better area for him to put it towards his car, or since you don;t know his and your trying to make yours more correct what would you put $500 towards?

I about choked... give me every one you can get your hands on at $500... I've got 500k to invest

[69Z28-RS]

In my searching, I've found several options for a smog system (which I've never had on my car since purchase in '76):
1) A reproduction system for around $700 (advertised lots of places)
2) A 100% original '69 system, with hoses, clamps, etc wtih good dates for my car, for a bit over $2000.
3) A combination of 'original dated' parts-including hoses (only repro are tubes and pulley)..  for something under $1000.

Since I'm not even sure I'm going to install it, but want to get one to *store away* for 'whenever'... I have
decided to go with option 3.

I played with early Z28's for 10 yrs or so (from '68 til late '70's) before I even *saw* one with a factory-installed SMOG.   Chevrolet KNEW that Z28 buyers were going to install headers, thus they put no effort into making the factory exhaust manifolds more efficient (rams horn manifolds are much more efficient).   302's do not run great without headers, so although I'm probably going to buy a smog system now, I will likely install the ceramic coated headers I have, but keep everything else original.