CRG Discussion Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
August 23, 2014, 08:25:16 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Welcome to the CRG Discussion Forum!
Forum registration problems: Make sure you enter your email correctly and you check your spam box first. *Then* email KurtS2@gmail for help.
103372 Posts in 12160 Topics by 4694 Members
Latest Member: tumper93
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  CRG Discussion Forum
|-+  Camaro Research Group Discussion
| |-+  General Discussion
| | |-+  This Car Has "Wrong" Written All Over It.
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [All] Print
Author Topic: This Car Has "Wrong" Written All Over It.  (Read 3012 times)
Hot302
Member
***
Posts: 343



View Profile
« on: December 15, 2012, 08:22:39 PM »

First Check out the pad stamping. Shocked   I'll let you all pick the rest of it apart. I really get depressed seeing cars like this being misrepresented. It's a crime. Sad

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28-1969-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-Z28-ROTISSERIE-NUT-BOLT-RESTORED-LESS-THAN-600-MILES-/190766067165?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2c6a8b2ddd#v4-37
Logged

Rick
69 RS/Z28
No Stripes
tmodel66
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1212


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2012, 09:22:18 PM »

That's three Tonawanda DZ engines in just a matter of days.  Huh I wonder if they ran across the same guy or maybe the stamper has an ad listed somewhere Stamp For Hire "You Sell We Never Tell".   Roll Eyes
Logged

Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP
Ed Bertrand
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 2333


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2012, 09:48:50 PM »

Vin is 124379N547852 for future searches.

Trim Tag (reproduction):

ST 69 12437NOR886289 BDY
TR 713 69  B PNT
05C X33D80

Engine Pad: T0429DZ (Restamp)

Ed
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 01:58:07 PM by Ed Bertrand » Logged
x77-69z28
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 786



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2012, 12:47:42 AM »

124379N547852 vin should be from sept or October 68, certainly not 05c! That is the worst deck stamp I have ever seen! Shouldn't have the Mylar sticker either. I would be checking hidden vins on this one!
Logged

69 x77 burnished brown, 711 int 05A bought in 78
67 rs/ss 350 butternut yellow 4 speed 2nd owner
70 Z28 forrest green, green int, M40, bk vinyl roof PROJECT
99 SS hugger orange 6spd NO TTOPS bought new 1 of 54
11 cts-v blk diamond  edition wagon 556hp sick!
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2325


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2012, 02:40:27 PM »

I'd say that is 'one of the worst deck RESTAMPS' I've ever seen..  Smiley   
it's probably based on 'fooling 'some of the people' some of the time'.. as he only needs to find ONE....

Gary
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
z28z11
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 594


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2012, 03:04:45 PM »

A real shame, considering it is a nice car. The stamp is pitiful - I don't think the assembly techs ever used individual stamps, hand held, to stamp the engine code. Maybe they lost the stamp holder on that day -
Logged

1968 Z28 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77 LeMans/W
1969 X66 L78 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48
Mike S
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1071



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2012, 03:20:25 PM »

But, as Daniel stated, it shows a Tonawanda plant code instead of Flint. That's a huge red flag.
This car will be targeted towards the real sucker. I can only image how that person will feel the day he/she learns of their mistake and realized they were duped.
I still have that bridge in Brooklyn for sale if anyone is interested  Wink

Mike
Logged

67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
Springer Tom
Member
***
Posts: 39


View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2012, 05:49:21 PM »

I don't know, guys, this cat says he has been to EVERY car auction........ Roll Eyes
Logged
z28z11
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 594


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2012, 05:57:26 PM »

Brings up something I read years ago while the USCC was still around - seems I remember one or two verified Z's that had 388 blocks, sometime after the start of the 3956618 casting series, purportedly because of a brief casting shortage during production. Flint production ? Tonawanda ? Saginaw ?

My 69 Pacer has a 388, as a lot of the Pace Cars had in production between 2D and 5A-B, so the Z's might fall in those dates. Can anyone verify this ?

Regards,
Steve
Logged

1968 Z28 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77 LeMans/W
1969 X66 L78 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48
x77-69z28
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 786



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2012, 07:05:30 PM »

According to Jerry's book, there are documented z-28's with 388 blocks in the February- march time frame due to increased production and a shortage of 618 blocks. They were shipped to and assembled in flint Michigan.
Logged

69 x77 burnished brown, 711 int 05A bought in 78
67 rs/ss 350 butternut yellow 4 speed 2nd owner
70 Z28 forrest green, green int, M40, bk vinyl roof PROJECT
99 SS hugger orange 6spd NO TTOPS bought new 1 of 54
11 cts-v blk diamond  edition wagon 556hp sick!
1968 Z28
Member
***
Posts: 422


View Profile Email
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2012, 07:08:32 PM »

Flint was the only engine plant that had the equipment to machine (machining for the 2.02 valves)  and assemble the Z28 heads.  In order for a Z28 engine to have a Tonawanda stamping the short blocks would have to be assembled in Tonawanda and then shipped to Flint to have the rest of the engine assembled.   Or the heads from Flint would have to be assembled and shipped, along with other Z28 engine parts, to Tonawanda for the engine to be assembled.  Either way, I don't believe that would have ever happened.
Logged

Jerry G.

Z28-1968-07C-Norwood
Ermine White, Red Std. Interior
2 Owner, 38,000 miles
Jon Mello
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 3148



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2012, 07:48:07 PM »

Here's a picture of the stamping for posterity's sake.
Logged

Jon Mello
CRG
BillOhio
Member
***
Posts: 368



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2012, 07:53:06 PM »

That's horrible
Logged

1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1967 Plymouth GTX Hemi, 4 speed, dana
KurtS
CRG Coordinator
*****
Posts: 3171


View Profile Email
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2012, 03:41:40 AM »

Yup, I've seen a few Tonawanda blocks in 69 Z's, but all were machined and assembled in Flint.
Logged

Kurt S
CRG
JohnZ
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 4067


View Profile Email
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2012, 01:54:07 PM »

I sent him some very pointed questions/comments, including the pad stamp done by Stevie Wonder with Harbor Freight stamps and the wrong engine plant, and the date mismatch and the block that didn't exist yet when that VIN was built, but haven't gotten a response. Don't expect one either.
Logged

'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG
Mike S
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1071



View Profile
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2012, 02:03:11 PM »

I was sipping my coffee when I red this and damn near spit it out  Cheesy

....done by Stevie Wonder with Harbor Freight stamps

Good one!

Mike
Logged

67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
JohnZ
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 4067


View Profile Email
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2012, 10:56:47 AM »

Here's the response from "Adcock Brothers" on the Stevie Wonder car:

<<Thanks,
I didn't in anyway put that this car is correct. I didn't state matching numbers. I'm listing this for a friend. So I put all the pictures and numbers that I could find. I simply put what the car is. You can buy brand new FAKE ones for over $80,000 built brand new. Look at the ad again and tell me where it says REAL Z or Matching Numbers. Thanks Pal


- adcockbrothersinc >>
Logged

'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG
Ed Bertrand
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 2333


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2012, 11:07:25 AM »

Looks like you got to him John. Shortly after you emailed him, he modified the ad!

Quote
***FOR ALL YOU REAL "Z" LOVERS: NO WHERE IN THIS AD DOES IT SAY THAT THIS IS THE EXACT WAY THIS CAME FROM THE FACTORY!!! IT DOES NOT SAY "NUMBERS MATCHING" OR REAL OR ANY OF THE SORTS!!! IT'S A BEAUTIFULLY BUILT CAMARO. PERIOD.

***FOR EVERYONE TALKING ABOUT THIS CAR VIA FORUM OR WHATEVER...PLEASE TAKE THE TIME AND READ THE AD...THIS DOES NOT SAY "MATCHING NUMBERS"  CORRECT ANYWHERE. I LISTED ALL OF THE NUMBERS THAT WERE USED TO BUILD THE CAR!!!

It's a nice  looking car, but all the fake crap on it just kills the thing.

Ed

Logged
BillOhio
Member
***
Posts: 368



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2012, 11:14:39 AM »

I think since he starts off by calling it a Z , is the first mistake. With the fake tag, it probably wasn't. Call it what it is. I would sell my numbers matching real z for what he wants for that!
Logged

1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1967 Plymouth GTX Hemi, 4 speed, dana
Mike S
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1071



View Profile
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2012, 02:19:48 PM »

 Despite what the ad now states....Below in itself is still misleading and would have gone unchallenged if John didn't call him out on it....I suspect the dealer doesn't realize its context is questionable.

***BLACK BOOKS CPI(CARS OF PARTICULAR INTEREST) BOOK-COLLECTIBLE VEHICLE VALUE GUIDE(AUGUST 2012 BOOK)....#2 CONDITION....PRICE OF $82,875.00!!!!!!           <----- This would give a subliminal perception to look at the car as a real Z sitting at this value. The wording above clearly is meant to cause the reader an inaccurate perception that he/she is looking at a real Z. I've seen many of these advertising methods on eBay when it comes to NOS  hoses with stampings. Read twice and you will see it is actually NOS hose but was stamped with the correct markings vs. an original hose with factory stamped markings.

***I JUST ADDED A COUPLE PICTURES OF THE STAMP ON THE FRONT OF THE BLOCK. AS YOU CAN SEE IT ENDS IN "DZ"!!  ......   <------ this by itself implies it is a true DZ block. Clearly deception to word it this way.

Good call John!

Mike
Logged

67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 835



View Profile
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2012, 02:38:03 PM »

I sent an inquiry to the seller at 6AM on Dec. 16th.

He responded on the 18th as follows:
"I thought when I looked at this car that it wasn't a correct Z28 so therefore I didn't list REAL Z or Matching Numbers? It's just a nicely built Camaro"
Logged
Mike S
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1071



View Profile
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2012, 02:42:39 PM »

I sent an inquiry to the seller at 6AM on Dec. 16th.

He responded on the 18th as follows:
"I thought when I looked at this car that it wasn't a correct Z28 so therefore I didn't list REAL Z or Matching Numbers? It's just a nicely built Camaro"


LOL.....after reading this, the term "plausible deniability"  popped into my head. Smiley

Mike
Logged

67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
jdv69z
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 634


69 RS Z/28 52E


View Profile Email
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2012, 02:53:07 PM »

"1969 CHEVROLET CAMARO Z28 ROTISSERIE "NUT & BOLT" RESTORED...LESS THAN 600 MILES"

Above the first line of the ad. Explain to me the part about it not being listed as a real Z?.  Guess that's what "rotisserie" means. Now I know.

Jimmy V.
Logged

Jimmy V.
68camaroz28
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 941



View Profile Email
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2012, 09:54:14 PM »

I notified by telephone this past Sunday an associate who knows the company as they are within 20 minutes from where I live and expressed just how bad the stamping was and the trim tag. That was in hope that they were not aware of the issues and changes would be made. Also sent a email via ebay to them Saturday evening stating a few of the major issues and was informed via email they knew on Tuesday morning stating "I had come to find out that this was the case so I didn't put in the ad that it was a fully correct car or matching numbers. It's too bad it was done right." Needless to say the car is a MESS...... On a light side, wonder who's book they were following to restore as I'm not using that one on our 68.....   Smiley 
Logged

Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
Pages: 1 2 [All] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.117 seconds with 17 queries.