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Author Topic: Sick of seeing this Z on ebay  (Read 6608 times)
dutch
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« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2012, 05:41:23 PM »

This whole deal sounds like it sort of substantiates and fosters that old line of thinking 'if you have enough money or influence - you can get whatever you want' - or possibly in this case to rephrase the second half of that to - 'make anything real'.. doesn't it?

 
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KurtS
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« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2012, 03:02:20 AM »

When the car was sold on ebay before Danny bought it, the car was noted by the seller as having a VIN by the oil filter.
Jerry's report for Danny basically says he couldn't find it. I can't answer for Jerry, but as anyone who has looked for the VIN down there, it can be hard to see.
His second report noted the VIN. Maybe they pulled the motor, don't know.
But what I see is an updated report with confirmed VIN location, not in conflict with the first one. If the VIN suddenly appeared on the deck, then there would obviously be an issue.

Guys,
I'd rather the accusatory tone stopped. If you have a question like this, just send an email to Jerry and ask him to comment here.

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Kurt S
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lcmc
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« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2012, 10:38:23 AM »

When the car was sold on ebay before Danny bought it, the car was noted by the seller as having a VIN by the oil filter.
Jerry's report for Danny basically says he couldn't find it. I can't answer for Jerry, but as anyone who has looked for the VIN down there, it can be hard to see.
His second report noted the VIN. Maybe they pulled the motor, don't know.
But what I see is an updated report with confirmed VIN location, not in conflict with the first one. If the VIN suddenly appeared on the deck, then there would obviously be an issue.

Guys,
I'd rather the accusatory tone stopped. If you have a question like this, just send an email to Jerry and ask him to comment here.



OK......here's the deal. I bought it from the guy on eBay. He did state there was a VIN. No pictures! I could not find a VIN. Jerry could not find a VIN. Now there is a VIN. End of story!
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Danny
1969 Z/28 X77
1970 Nova L78 9300 original miles
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« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2012, 10:51:53 AM »

As Kurt has noted and I think we can at least agree when the motor is in the car that vin is hard to see at the best of times, it is entirely possible on the second inspection perhaps Jerry was able to find it. I have pictures of my block out of the car and still the vin by the oil filter is hard to read. I would agree that anyone who needs more context should reach out to Jerry directly.
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Sonny

1969 Z28 Camaro
1970 Z28 Camaro

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« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2012, 11:37:27 AM »

Danny,
You didn't have him show the VIN to you when you bought it?
It was also on ebay before that, btw.

The pad stamping hasn't changed the whole time. The only issue is Jerry couldn't find the VIN when he inspected it for you. Which has to be frustrating, but it happens.
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Kurt S
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lcmc
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« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2012, 12:17:35 PM »

Danny,
You didn't have him show the VIN to you when you bought it?
It was also on ebay before that, btw.

The pad stamping hasn't changed the whole time. The only issue is Jerry couldn't find the VIN when he inspected it for you. Which has to be frustrating, but it happens.

Kurt.....I bought the car without seeing it. When I couldn't find it is when I called Jerry in on it. It wasn't a big deal to me since the car was Canadian documented and I got it bought right. I was just trying to further document it by having Jerry look at it. Once I saw it back on eBay with VIN it all seemed to strange.
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Danny
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1970 Nova L78 9300 original miles
Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2012, 09:26:01 AM »

Danny, let me chime in here since you are concerned about the car.  Nothing has changed really since I inspected the car for you.  When I did your inspection, we worked on a lift that had two long ramps so it was hard and cumbersome to get under the car by the oil filter and get photos of the vin stamp by the oil filter.  Under varying working conditions the stamped vin by the oil filter can be hard to read.  I stated in your report that is was possible that the engine was original to the car.  The assembly stamp on the deck does match all original stampings in my data base during that time period. 

I remember calling B. Harris about this car too as he had owned it before you.  December is a month of transition and some cars have the vin on the deck from Norwood and some have it down by the oil filter.  When I inspected the car at RK, the working conditions were much better.  Twin post lift with plenty of light and access under the car at the oil filter boss.  RK's staff took the liberty to clean the engine block with a heavy wire brush and lacquer thinner.  I was able to get photos of the stamping at RK.  The stamping matches all of the other vin character stampings around that time period.  I did not bring lacquer thinner or a large wire brush to scrape the engine block oil filter area when I did your inspection.  In most cases with engines and vins by the oil filter, it is very hard to read most of them.  I rely more on the engine assembly stamp.  If I can pull three or four numbers off the oil filter pad then that's a bonus.   

I also stated in both reports that the trans assembly date was not typical for Muncie cases and that the characters were too far apart and not done in a gang stamp.  However, the vin stamping looked very original IMO.

Now if you think I have done a disservice to you just call me.  I'll be glad to go over anything about this car. 

Jerry     
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2012, 09:34:18 AM »

Here is photo of that rack that we worked from when I did the inspection for Danny, hard to read vins with this kind of lift.
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2012, 09:38:23 AM »

RK inspection.
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lcmc
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« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2012, 04:34:39 PM »

Jerry.....I just remember at the time you seemed concerned there was no VIN on the pad and nothing near oil filter. I recall we did clean the oil filter area but didn't use a wire brush and I think you tried to photo the area with no results. This car has been a hard sell since I sold it as I had seen it listed for some time by another dealer. Then it showed up at RK with a clear VIN when we noticed no sign of one. This concerned me.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 05:59:49 PM by lcmc » Logged

Danny
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1970 Nova L78 9300 original miles
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« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2012, 09:17:51 AM »

Danny, I understand.  Some working conditions are better than others and I did not suspect any monkey business at the 2nd inspection.  I know that Joe Carroll always tries to buy nice cars as his reputation means everything in the world of marketing these cars.  He's been taken on a couple of occasions and that is why I do a lot of work for him now. 

In the case of this vin, it was hard to read and it was only from the use of equipment at RK that I was able to pick up some of the characters, not all but some.

Jerry
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Charley
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« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2012, 02:35:41 PM »

If we are going to bring up the stellar reputation of RK I feel I should give my input.
http://www.rkmotorscharlotte.com/sales/inventory/top_sales_2011/1970-1-2-Pontiac-Firebird-Trans-Am/132152#!/
 Great car but not orig. seat covers as stated in their ad. They bought the car from a good friend on mine and he told them he had the seat covers made for him at great cost yet they sold it as orig. seat covers. They were even reminded of it when they were selling it. They might be great guys but that type of sales tactic does not instill trust.
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2012, 08:57:57 PM »

"Caveat emptor"....   all the time..  every time..
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
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lakeholme
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« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2012, 10:24:58 PM »

"Et documenta ante te reprehendi"
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Phillip
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Paul68RS/Z28
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« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2012, 08:30:41 AM »

From the ad:

" The seats and door panels have been reconditioned and re-dyed, but they are the OEM pieces."

I wouldn't have taken that as meaning Original seat covers. Agree, maybe they should have been clearer, but from a Dealer, I would never expect that. 

If we are going to bring up the stellar reputation of RK I feel I should give my input.
http://www.rkmotorscharlotte.com/sales/inventory/top_sales_2011/1970-1-2-Pontiac-Firebird-Trans-Am/132152#!/
 Great car but not orig. seat covers as stated in their ad. They bought the car from a good friend on mine and he told them he had the seat covers made for him at great cost yet they sold it as orig. seat covers. They were even reminded of it when they were selling it. They might be great guys but that type of sales tactic does not instill trust.

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