status of permission from GM- regarding CRG shirts and hats

[BULLITT65]

I have been getting personal messages asking where we are at with our progress of  CRG hat and T-shirt. The old topic got Locked, it seems things got a little heated over wether or not we should have a poll while we are waiting for permission.

68Steve has corresponded with GM-EMI and received the forms.  I believe by now he has submitted these forms. I talked to the woman from EMI and asked her for a lead time on such permission, and she said it usually took about a month, but considering the holiday this month it would probably be closer to 6 weeks.

I hope this helps everyone who wants to know the status, and I am sure Steve will update us when he has more information, as long as this topic doesn't get closed as well.
If for some reason it does get closed, feel free to contact me, this will help Steve out if he is not getting bombarded from many questions.

thanks guys!

[tom]

THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KurtS]

The form is a request for permission. It's on paper, so it's not an online thing and takes time for them to process. Sounds like EMI handle lots of such requests, so it's one in a pile.

Is there anything else that needs to be discussed about the designs and options? Especially about the hats - I haven't followed that at all.

[BULLITT65]

I believe we agreed on the CRG red banner for the hats, (like Johns). I think it was a matter of color and flexfit Vs. adjustable back, which was going to voted on in a poll. Concerning the shirts, all the designs were submitted, and like the hats, ready to be voted on in a poll.

If anyone has any other input for a shirt or hat design that hasn't previously been discussed, and you would like to put forth an idea (or better yet an image) please do so, and be ready for some constructive criticism from your friends here ...haha.

I think after having the last month to discuss it all, we are pretty much just waiting on the ok, from "the group" to go ahead with poll to start narrowing down designs for each.

[IZRSSS]

Kurt - Newbie here...what about this?;

B65 & Steve have the GM licensing issue well in hand.

Let me Post this on the "Official CRG Cap & T-shirt" thread.

"Disregard everything that has taken place before this post. Unless you are really board and have nothing better to do…

All of the entries for both the T-shirt designs & Cap styles have been submitted. The polls for both will run for three (3) weeks beginning on 12/08/12, and ending on 12/28/12.

I will post the winners online on 12/29/12 for two days (ending on 12/31/12). During that time I will need to know the following:

     T-shirt; Do we consider using the “Camaro Script” as part of the design (if it applies), and does the print color & font selection work? Once this input is had, the design will be submitted to Barbara. I think by then she will know what the majority’s consensus is. And we should give her full reign to put her magic to work. Once she has a sample for viewing either Steve or I will post her rendition online. It will be at this time that the Core Group and the core group alone will give their final recommendations.

     Cap; determine the size of the CRG logo in front of the cap. I personally feel the logo on John’s cap for example is too large. However, I think it had to be that size so the “Camaro Research Group” beneath the “CRG” is legible. This is something the cap company can help us with.
 
The other question as it pertains to the cap; do we want to include CRG’s website as well? I personally think yes. And I think it should be placed on the back of the cap. In the case of a cap that fastens, just above the opening. As for a flex fit cap, same general area just above the liner. And just like with the tee, non-core members will give their input but the final decision will be that of the Core".

Marty

[IZRSSS]

...T-shirts Backs;

[Charley]

Amazing......

[IZRSSS]

...T-shirt Fronts;

[IZRSSS]

...and Caps;

[tom]

A 7 Navy

[IZRSSS]

Since we're already campaigning..........B 7 Navy - 3 

[camaro jock]

Welcome back Newbie it did'nt take you long to get back in the groove. Darrell

[KurtS]

Amazing......

Exactly. We're going to schedule the poll again without GM approval in hand? After that last thread?
Sorry, hate to have to do it, but now banned.

[tom]

Kurt, All,
I have understand GM approval has been requested, and will take time to process.
Can I request now that if GM approval is granted, will you lift the ban at that time?
Patiently hoping for a t-shirt.....
tom

[BULLITT65]

I started this topic just to keep the lines of communication open for members who are interested in getting a shirt or hat, or wanted to voice their input if they hadn't already.

Kurt I believe there is some frustration by our members here because after 25 pages of the last thread you never addressed WHY we are unable to vote on a design and keep the ball rolling here. Your response of "the group" wanting permission first, really doesn't answer this.

I think a better explanation or more detailed answer would have gone a long way.Banning someone just because you have the power to do so may not be the best corse of action to curb members who are trying to get answers. It is a sure fire way to kill enthusiasm and support for a great website.

Lets try to look at the bigger picture here, we are all on the same team, and want the best for the hobby of following this great Car. Communication remains the key for us all to work together.
Everyone here just needs to pull up their big girl panties and work together please.

thanks

[bertfam]

Your response of "the group" wanting permission first, really doesn't answer this.

Actually, it DOES answer this. Without the official blessing of General Motors (in writing), there's no reason to keep voting on colors, designs, styles, etc...

What if GM comes back and says "no" (which I warn you, they have many, many times before), then what have you accomplished other than getting everyone stirred up? It's like spending all your lottery money before you've won!

All the CRG is asking is that everyone just hang tight until the paperwork is filed and we have a copy of their permission in hand. After all, the "Camaro Research Group" is on the hook for any legal actions GM may take if we don't have their permission, not you guys. I don't think that's a lot to ask.

Ed

[KurtS]

I'll only add that I think it's great that you guys want and designed the shirts and caps! I want to see this come to fruition.
Don't see me as the roadblock, GM permission is the roadblock. When that is handled, the process can continue.

[Sauron327]

It's a waste of time and energy to design a product using a company's name or logo without their permssion. I'm in the art and design business and would not put pencil to paper to market a product without navigating the proper channels first.

[HOT3O2]

One of the things that really got this started was the picture of Johns original hat with the "CRG" logo he posted. Did the group get "GM" permission for that? And if so how long did it take? 

[RUNUTZ]

GM , MOPAR and FORD actually have employees that check shows , internet , mags etc. to see who is infringing on their LOGO / Copyright infringement.MOPAR is probably the one that inforces it the most.Carlisle is a haven for checking anyone that's not recieved permission for uasge.They can't stop everyone but when you get a letter have some $$$ available.They (law inforcement) have actually shut down some vendors and had all their merchandise confiscated.Being there's some GM management on this site better go the right route than get the slap on the wrist.I'm sure if it was up to them they wouldn't care.Using CRG isn't the problem it's using camaro or chevrolet.

[tom]

From conversations I have had, the application has been filed, and I expect that response from GM will take around a month at best, but could take longer. GM may grant or deny the request. I know this is frustrating, but I think the best thing we can do for now is to await the response from GM. The ball is rolling, I would like to see it stay on track.

[bertfam]

One of the things that really got this started was the picture of Johns original hat with the "CRG" logo he posted. Did the group get "GM" permission for that?

Rick, those hats were made many years ago by a neighboor of Rich's and he only made 9 or 10 of them. None of them were for resale (they were all gifts), so licensing wasn't an issue.

Ed

[DjD]

Hi Guys,

I don't participate here very much but this spilled over on to Team Camaro and got my attention.  As the president of Camaros Limited Nor~Cal which has been in existence since 1981.  The club has always had shirts and other swag printed up for it's members.  At one time we went to an online printing store in an effort to get the swag to the membership in a more on demand fashion!  Bad move, it worked great but GM lawyers had been trying to shut down the online store for a long time and when they saw our club logo demanded they shut down our site.  

What transpired next was months of dealing with the GM legal team who assured us GM and Chevrolet were not going after a small group of some of GM more dedicated and loyal customer base and supporters but we were a casualty of their fight against a larger foe!  After a long running process of filling out the forms, waiting for approvals, providing further information, finding out about GM's intellectual property, learning about the ins and outs of getting a corporate license to be allowed limited use of said intellectual property the club was finally allowed conditional permission.  

That started the next round, we couldn't just go print stuff.  Each item of art had to be reviewed and approved, a statement of use or condition of use had to be approved as well.  Then we had to state what swag the art (GMs intellectual property) they would not accept a list saying: "Hats, Shirts, etc."  ETC was too vague and if you wanted pens and hats and shirts and business cards and and and ...  Well each item had to be spelled out.  This took months and months before we were given a conditional ok to start printing!  

Swag is really cool and most clubs and online forums do it without realizing what is at risk to the organization.  GM has a corporate shark that swims the waters of the internet and will issue a cease an desist order and then they will start feeding on you like a wounded sea lion.  They don't care if you are a small time Charlie making a shirt for your own personal use they will treat you just like a big corporation wanting to license and make money off the GM brand and it's intellectual property!!  

The best thing the membership here can do is honor the administrations wishes and back off until it's the right time to proceed...

Thanks for taking the time to read my .02!  

[Mike S]

 Worse comes to worse and there is no approval (which I highly doubt) I'll get mine made locally and give them to me as gifts 

Mike

[tom]

Thanks for taking the time to share your experience.  

CRG crew take note:

......      when they saw our club logo demanded they shut down our site.  ..................
The best thing the membership here can do is honor the administrations wishes and back off until it's the right time to proceed...

Thanks for taking the time to read my .02!  

tom

[z28z11]

Gentlemen (and ladies),

I'm new to the Forum relatively, but I'm proud to be here like everyone else. And I will be just as proud to sport logo apparel whenever we can garner the approvals from Equity Management/GM (whom I have dealt with before, years ago).

Without raising too much ire, an alternative solution might be to skirt the copyright issue - don't use Camaro in the scripts. "camaros" (as GM labeled it when explaining the Camaro nameplate on inception years ago), was an obscure/archaic French term translated as "comrades" or "friends" if I remember correctly - asking the legal guys viewing this forum - does not using the formal nameplate fit the letter of the law concerning copyrights ? If so, then use the following crude adaptation of the logo also, instead of spelling out the Camaro Research Group. Or is this too simple ?

Just my two cents. After keeping up with this for a couple of weeks, blood pressures and adrenalines are getting out of hand - please remember that this is a hobby, not a life threatening vocation -

Many regards (and don't hold this thought against me !),
Steve

[BULLITT65]

I agree with with DjD, but there isn't any trademark infringement or harm done by doing a poll. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a legal team to figure that out. The crime is when an actual batch of shirts gets made with out permission.
I have no problem with waiting the month or 2 until permission is granted,to continue. I just don't get the idea that were playing with fire by conducting a poll of what our members may want is all.

[BULLITT65]

thanks for your idea Steve, IMO I would rather wait for permission and actually have the website "Camaros.org" and " Camaro Research Group" on the shirts to direct people to the website. But I like your direct approach =)

[tom]

It's been awhile since I have heard anything, I don't expect we have permission yet, but I am curious if there is any status or feed back on the application.

[BULLITT65]

its been almost 4 weeks, according to GM-EMI it usually takes about 4 weeks to hear back, but she said because of the holidays she said it would probably be closer to 6. We should have a update in about 2 weeks. Glad to see the interest, I am patiently waiting as well.
Happy new year fellas !

[Steve68]

I've not heard anything from them yet.  In this case no news is good news as far as I'm concerned.  It may be another 2 weeks or longer.  I will keep all apprised of any developments.

Steve

[tom]

Steve, Bullett,
Thanks for all you have done so far. Have a fantastic new year, including those very anticipated CRG shirts & hats !
Tom

[BULLITT65]

Thank you Tom, Steve, and Marty (who really got this movement going with the much needed visuals for us). I am excited for the next year for our the hobby. I anticipate a influx of visitors/new members to our site based on seeing a shirt or hat from one of our current members. I think the site could use a shot of new blood young and old to keep us energized and discovering new things about our rides and how different each car can be or came back then. 

[MyRed67]

Worse comes to worse and there is no approval (which I highly doubt) I'll get mine made locally and give them to me as gifts 

Mike

  I had 2 coats made a few years back with stitched embroidery, Chevrolet Script style on the back, and Camaro on the front.  The question of copyright infringement came up at  the time, and the company told me that as long as I was only making 2 for personal use I did not have to worry.  So,, if worse comes to worse, I too will have my own made locally.

[tom]

I anticipate and hope Marty will join us in our new swag before too long.

[hgger69]

Any news regarding this topic yet?

[tom]

Just a nudge to bring the thread back to the first page. Still patiently (or not) for news.

[Steve68]

Good timing Tom.  We have received a reply to our request for approval to use GM trademarks.  The letter does grant permission to use some of their trademarks.  It places some restrictions and conditions on the use as well.  We are evaluating the letter to be sure we understand what we can and can not use and what we must do to be able to print or otherwise use their trademarks on items for sale.  Stay tuned.

Steve

[tom]

Thanks for the news. If you want another eyball or opinion holler.
Marty take notice!

[tom]

Steve, does the GM approval appear to include the hats & shirts as posted above in replies 5, 7 & 8? Do you think these would need to be modified to comply with the permission as granted?

[Steve68]

Tom, I don't see a number 8 above...must be overlooking or something but, yes I think we may have to modify some.

[tom]

Reply 8 was the hats

[Steve68]

Ok, I see now......yes I think some minor mods may be needed for all.

Steve

[tom]

Let me know if I can help

[KurtS]

GM granted the request for use of the Camaro trademark. We think we understand what is required and the implications.
I'll generate the t-shirt poll and set it up to run for 14 days. That should give people plenty of time.

[MyRed67]

GM granted the request for use of the Camaro trademark. We think we understand what is required and the implications.
I'll generate the t-shirt poll and set it up to run for 14 days. That should give people plenty of time.

  Did I miss a poll for the hats?  Or was one not done yet?