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Author Topic: COPO?  (Read 11453 times)
huggerorange
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« on: July 26, 2006, 12:04:02 PM »

Hello!
I'm a long-time camaro enthusiast, and the proud new owner of an orange 69 camaro.  I bought the car last week, and already have a few questions that I hope someone can help with.

Is anybody out there knowledgeable on COPO camaros? My car is hugger orange with the RS option, has the functional cowl-induction hood, and black standard interior. In the dash are a 120 mph speedo and 6,000 rpm tach, and the center console houses the gauge cluster. It's a 4-speed car, and came with the muncie, but the engine and rear-end are missing. The car has a curved-neck radiator, big-block heater box, and power disc brakes (rear drums). There is no power steering, and there are no emblems on the car indicating SS. The firewall tag has an "X11" code and a "06A" build date. The vin# is 124379N660445.

At first I thought it was a SS396 car because of the radiator and the heater box, but the x-code was not right. However, because of the tach and gauges, the hood, and the power brakes, I fugured it was still an SS, so I bought it.

When I got the car home, I looked closer at the heater box, and it does not appear to have ever been removed/replaced. (I have owned several first gen camaros over the past 20 years, and I also used to work in a body shop for a guy who restored first gen camaros exclusively, and I have taken alot of them apart) Anyway, I got on CRG and read more about the x-codes, and now I'm wondering whether my car might be a COPO.

I have read about Ed Cunneen and the resources he has. Does anyone know how to get in touch with him? Is my car a COPO?
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william
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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2006, 12:26:34 PM »

This a fairly common question on many of the 1st gen boards. The responses are predictable-look for this, what is the body number, etc.

None of it is proof the car is a COPO. The only proof is original factory paperwork or an unquestionable, original VIN stamped engine.

Cunneen has knowledge of the cars but no one has Chevrolet build records. I believe he no longer "certifies" cars.
If you have any reason to believe the car was sold new in Canada you can get info from the Zone office there as they still have records.

Your next step is to start tracking past ownership. Maybe someone has paperwork or the motor. Long shot but worth it. There are many near perfect COPO clownes out there. No one trusts undocumented cars these days.
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2006, 01:41:11 PM »

Your car's VIN does fit into the CANADIAN COPO LIST, so yes, do what William suggested and contact the Canadian GM VINTAGE VEHICLE SERVICE.

Good luck and keep us posted...

Ed
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huggerorange
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2006, 05:21:08 PM »

Thanks to everyone with a reply.

I am contacting previous buyers as we speak, but so far am having no luck with old parts, paperwork or history. I'll keep trying. I did call the Canadian Vintage Vehicle Service, and although my car's vin# puts it in the same numerical neighborhood as a "bunch" of COPO 9561s, it was not sold in Canada, so no luck there.
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copo
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« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2006, 02:10:09 PM »

This car was built 71 cars before my canadian documented copo camaro.
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firstgenaddict
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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2006, 08:45:59 PM »

What is the body number?
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James
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KurtS
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« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2006, 12:52:14 AM »

And what is the trans code?
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Kurt S
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huggerorange
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« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2006, 10:04:19 AM »

I mistated the facts. I thought the transmission was a muncie because it looked like a muncie when I first crawled under the car to look. I had found some info. on CRG about transmission codes, and when I took a closer look at my transmission, it's not a muncie. Looks like a borg-warner replacement.

As for the body number, I don't know where to find that. Is it on the firewall tag?

Here is what my firewall tag looks like.

      BODY BY FISHER
ST 69 12437 NOR351147 BDY
TR 711           72 72       PNT
      06A          X11
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KMOTION
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« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2006, 08:17:10 AM »

Try posting over on the Yenko website. They cover all the "supercars", Yenko, COPO, Baldwin-Motion, Dana, Berger etc and have LOTS of knowledge. Just reading some of the prior posts will answer most of your questions.

Jim

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=
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KurtS
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« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2006, 03:38:05 AM »

It's still a possible, but will be *really* hard to prove one way or the other.

What's the date on the radiator (see rad article under Reports) and the heater core?
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Kurt S
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JoeC
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« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2006, 07:14:47 AM »

hello everyone - my first post here

Sounds like an interesting Camaro
Does it have the original grill and if so what color is it?
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huggerorange
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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2006, 11:09:55 AM »

Hello JoeC

I believe that the grille on the car is the original, and it is hugger orange with black insert.
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JohnZ
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« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2006, 11:37:12 AM »

Only an SS would have had a black standard grille center section - see:

      http://www.camaros.org/exterior.shtml#1969Grille
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william
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« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2006, 12:06:12 PM »

John the car is an RS. All RS grilles were black except for black cars.
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JohnZ
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« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2006, 07:32:28 PM »

Oops - missed the "RS" item in the first post.  Undecided
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huggerorange
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« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2006, 02:06:42 PM »

A few posts ago, KurtS asked about the date on the radiator, and referred to a radiator article on CRG. I checked out the article, and went home to look at the car, but I could not find a radiator tag like the one referred to in the article. All that I found was a different-looking tag, about half-way down on the passenger side radiator tank, facing the engine. It is turned sideways, and looks like this:

                                 HARRISON
                              LOCKPORT, NY
                                     74C
                                  3018623

Does this mean anything to anybody?

Also, I contacted one of the previous owners. He has a bunch of paperwork that he says came with the car when it was new, and says he'll send it to me. He read some of the stuff to me over the phone. The car was bought on July 17, 1969 from Carter Chevrolet in Brenham, TX. I also got the original owner's name. I called Carter Chevrolet, but they only keep records for 15 years, and I have had zero luck so far calling the original owner. That's all for now.                             
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KurtS
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« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2006, 12:57:09 AM »

You're not looking for a tag, but a date letter stamped between the tank code.

But from what you've posted, I suspect the radiator is a replacement. And it should have fittings for an auto trans.
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Kurt S
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huggerorange
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« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2007, 01:01:08 PM »

I'm back

It took me a while, and I had to drive all the way to Austin, but I have retrieved some really cool paperwork which may shed some light. As always, any help is appreciated.

One of the previous owners had the original (what's left of it) owner's manual. It is worn and tattered, and there's absouletly nothing in it specific to my car, but it's cool to have and one day, when the restoration is finished, the owner's manual will re-take its rightful place in the glove box of the Camaro.

What's more interesting is that the previous owner also had the warranty card with the original protect-o-plate still attached. I don't know for sure what all the numbers mean, but it does have my vin# stamped accross the top. I think I have heard that protect-o-plates can tell you what engine came in your car and etc. Can any of you help? Thanks

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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2007, 01:23:53 PM »

Post a picture of the plate and we'll tell you exactly what you have.

Ed
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huggerorange
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« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2007, 04:16:49 PM »

I usually know my way around the computer pretty good, but I how do I post a picture? I see the icon that says, "Insert Image," but I don't know what to do with the prompt after I click the icon.
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2007, 04:36:17 PM »

You have to have a third party site host the file for you. I use PHOTOBUCKET and FREEPHOTOSERVER because they're free and I'm a cheapskate!!!

Post the picture up there and then post a link to it here.

Ed
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huggerorange
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« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2007, 04:59:04 PM »

Thanks for the info Ed. If I did this right, there should be 2 photos.



[/img]
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huggerorange
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« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2007, 05:03:56 PM »

OK, here's another try

[/img]
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huggerorange
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« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2007, 05:11:02 PM »

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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2007, 05:29:24 PM »

I hope you're sitting down.

Congratulations. You have a COPO!!!

The "MN" code is 427/425 COPO 9561 4 speed (L72) Special High Performance and the "BE" rear end is Heavy Duty 4.10 Posi COPO.

Now why can't I find something like this???

Ed
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huggerorange
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« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2007, 05:41:20 PM »

Wow. Thanks so much for your help Ed. This sounds like one of those stories I have always read about in the magazines. Who would have thought that I would find a COPO on a used car lot right here in Midland, TX?
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2007, 07:03:37 PM »

A USED CAR LOT!!!!???

Shocked

Now that IS amazing!

Here's the breakdown of your POP by the way. (From top to bottom, left to right):

124379N660445 - 1969 Camaro V8 assembled at the Norwood, Ohio plant
H - Holley carburetor equipped
T0522MN - 427/425 COPO engine, assembled on May 22nd, 1969 at the Tonowanda plant
BE0610G - 4.10 Heavy Duty Posi 12 Bolt, assembled on June 10th, 1969 at the Detroit Gear and Axle plant
6 - Car assembled June, 1969
P9H04 - Muncie 4 speed transmission assembled on June 4th, 1969
133 - Power Disk Brakes and either an AM, AM/FM Mono, or AM/FM Stereo radio
Chevy "Bowtie"

Original Owner:

James W. Fucua
1209 Kiowa
Arlington, Texas 76010
07-106-04    7-15-69

Now you need to see if Mr. Fucua is still around. Start doing some research and see if you can find him!!

And again, congratulations on a GREAT find!

Oh yeah, did you ever check the Muncie to see if it had your VIN on it?

Ed



« Last Edit: January 08, 2007, 07:20:54 PM by bertfam » Logged
rich69rs
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« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2007, 09:25:46 PM »

Congratulations! huggerorange!!!

What an amazing story and find!
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Richard Thomas
1969 RS
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« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2007, 09:32:06 PM »

Another thought. The original dealer "may" still be around. you should check that out as well. It should be listed on the POP as well.

Ed
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KurtS
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« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2007, 10:59:46 PM »

Does the POP also list Carter Chev as the dealer? The buyer lived 200 miles away, that's a long way to a dealer!
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Kurt S
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« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2007, 03:23:58 PM »

Don,

The last couple of years at the AACA auto fair at Lowe's Motor Speedway near Charlotte, NC through the Road and Track booth, they have been gathering stories for an update of The Cobra In The Barn.  Tom Cotter lives in Davidson, NC.

After you finish your documentation, you really ought to submit your story!  I'll be talking to one of the AACA district officers soon.  I'll see if they have contact information.

Congratulations!  All of us will be taking an extra look at every used car lot when we drive by...  Grin
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Phillip
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2007, 03:40:06 PM »

I'll bet Tommy is now kicking himself for passing up an original 69 COPO for 10k!!!

Yes, PLEASE keep us informed of the progress of not only the restoration, but any luck in locating previous owners.

Ed
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zzmike
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« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2007, 04:13:22 PM »

Wow, really a great story.  Congratulations!!!  Grin
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1968 Crossram Z/28 Camaro
JL8Jeff
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« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2007, 07:07:17 PM »

Wow, what a great find to stumble onto and the paperwork is like icing on the cake!  It should be a fun project trying to put together all the right parts for an original RS COPO!  Good luck.
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1969 Z28 JL8 4 wheel disc brakes, #'s match, crossram, GM fiberglass crossram hood, TI, Minilite wheels - being restored
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« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2007, 09:08:02 PM »

What a great find.  Huggerorange I live in Midland also and would love to see your car.

Kris
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