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Author Topic: 1969 DZ 302 motor  (Read 4495 times)
graybarn
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« on: October 07, 2012, 10:13:19 AM »

I have a 302 DZ motor with the following marking:
VO605DZ
Serial # 12N6321 (there is another digit after the one but can't tell if it is a 1 or a 4)
Number is very hard to read
I have owned this motor since the early 70's
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2012, 10:15:14 AM »

graybarn, can you post a picture of the engine pad and the VIN? The VIN should start with 19N, not 12N. Also, if you put a light at an angle to the VIN, you might be able to make out the last number.

Thanks
Ed
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william
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2012, 10:40:21 AM »

A Camaro with a VIN of N632xxx would have been final-assembled April 24 or 25 and would not have a June 5 engine.

Check all the numbers more carefully.
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graybarn
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2012, 12:50:15 PM »

A picture of the pad is attached.
For the serial I have tried light at different angles, magnifying glass and even high res pictures.
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graybarn
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2012, 12:56:13 PM »

Picture of the Serial Number
Not sure if it helps
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2012, 03:44:33 PM »

that VIN stamping, while not totally legible in your photo, seems pretty typical of the rough cast surface stampings I've seen.    I don't think the '6' is the first digit of the sequence number; there is space for another numeral before the 6 that is not detectable in the photo.    I also see the leading digits as '1 9 N'..  not the  '12N' that you thought.     With rough sand-cast surfaces, there are places where the digits just don't come thru.   It would help if you had the car VIN, that would probably help you decode the stamping...  Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
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graybarn
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2012, 06:40:43 PM »

Thanks for the heads up on the digit between the N and the 6.  I will look again to see if I can spot it.
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wisemanz28
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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2012, 07:07:36 PM »

It looks like 686321
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lynnbilodeau
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2012, 09:51:19 AM »

68xxxx seems a little late for a June 5 motor.  I know of two 08A Z/28's  671xxx cars with July 2 motors, and another 08A Z that had an August 1 engine.  More likely 66321X, or something close.  I realize it wasn't fifo with the engines, but still seems a bit early for a 686xxxx.  Of course, some of you guys have huge databases (in comparison) so perhaps I am off on this. 
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2012, 10:24:22 AM »

68xxxx seems a little late for a June 5 motor.  I know of two 08A Z/28's  671xxx cars with July 2 motors, and another 08A Z that had an August 1 engine.  More likely 66321X, or something close.  I realize it wasn't fifo with the engines, but still seems a bit early for a 686xxxx.  Of course, some of you guys have huge databases (in comparison) so perhaps I am off on this.  
Based on the 5June69 engine assembly date, it was probably a June VIN, which would indicate a VIN between '650323' and '664008'.    The digits that are legible in the stamp on the casting could certainly fall into that range.   I suspect if you re-examine the photo (or the block)..  use some chalk or some other means to enhance the stamping, you can probably take a better photo and discern what the VIN most likely was...
 ie. possibly 66321x  ??

Gary / 69Z28-RS
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 11:01:55 AM by 69Z28-RS » Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
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72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
69Z28-RS
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« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2012, 11:09:08 AM »

PS.  Using that information, we could also project that this engine went into a car with VIN 66321x, and was built on 27June1969 (a Friday), and the 20th of the 21 work days that month.   The 3 weeks between engine assembly (5June) and car build (27June) is exactly in line with the time between the engine build and my 09C car production.

Gary
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
william
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« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2012, 07:38:38 PM »

Don't base anything on one data point.

My NOR Z/28 db has almost 700 examples and 3 weeks is well off the norm. It depends on when a car was built. During peak Z/28 production periods it is not unusual to see engine installations 7-10 days after build. During slow production months [July '69 2 weeks, Aug '69 3 weeks] DZ engine inventory increased. When production picked up again in Sep some cars received June engines. By late Sep engine dates were back to 7-10 day installation.

Don't apply this thinking to Van Nuys. Because of the distance VN kept more engine inventory and of course it aged. Also the data hints that some engine dates are unique to a specific plant.
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x77-69z28
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« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2012, 10:20:43 PM »

Maybe it's just me, but blowing up that pic almost looks like666321
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2012, 11:54:24 PM »

Unfortunately, since he only has the engine, and a *partial* VIN reading, we have few data points.   And it IS a Norwood build, we know that.    My only point was that the two things we know (engine assembly date and partial VIN), they are compatible...

Gary
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
graybarn
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« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2012, 07:02:10 PM »

Would you guys have a rough idea as to what the engine is worth, outside the unlikely event that someone out there actually still have the car it came out of?
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lynnbilodeau
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« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2012, 09:32:02 PM »

As for what it is worth, there are a lot of variables.

I think you said pan to intake with correct internals.

Does it include the correct non dripper valve covers?  Hard to find nice ones.

I know you said everything checked out fine, but most guys are going to assume that it MAY need to be bored and new pistons fitted.  I realize there are those that would just take a chance, put it together and hope for the best.  However, that is quite an assumption.  I bought an all original DZ engine in 1983 that had thrown a rod.  I am thinking I can buy one piston (still available from Chevy dealer at the time), have the one bad cyl sleeved and get this thing built cheap.  Turned out 6 of the pistons had collapsed skirts, which is pretty common if it ever overheated.  Ended up buying 8 more brand new .030 pistons and having the block bored.  BTW, ran like a scaulded dog with the 140 cam and headers!!!  But, the point is that is was much more expensive than I had planned.

So.... what it is worth is pretty subjective given the chances one has to take.  I suspect if there is someone out there with their original POP that shows a V0605DZ engine code, it is worth quite a bit to them.  For everyone else, pretty much the sum of the parts.  Here is a run down of the parts, but these are nothing more than my opinion.

If the crank is still standard AND DOESN'T NEED TURNED it will bring $750. 
The block $1,000 to $1500 (just because everyone is going to assume it may need bored). 
The pink floating rods probably $400 if they are rust free.
The pan and windage tray maybe $300 (there is a pan still avialable OTC for about $100, but it isn't an exact match.
Set of used standard pistions will bring between $80 and $250 depending on how the final day of bidding goes on ebay.
Intake will bring about $400.
Valve covers (if you have them) about $300 to $400.
Heads, if they haven't been messed with (still have press in studs and no porting) about $400 as is.
Not much demand for a used camshaft, but I am sure there is a buyer out there.

Ballpark is about $4250 with valve covers.  Less without.   However, if the guy with car 666321 has a pop that matches, it is worth whatever he is willing to pay.
I just sold a V1217DZ block to a guy who had a V1217DZ  POP but no original motor.  I could have stuck it to him so to speak, but went ahead and sold it to him for $1500.  He was shocked, expecting me to hold him hostage for it.

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KurtS
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« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2012, 08:14:53 AM »

I see 9N663214.
That fits other blocks in that timeframe. Car is not in the db. I'll add that it's not a common block date.
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Kurt S
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lynnbilodeau
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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2012, 08:18:05 AM »

Don't base anything on one data point.

My NOR Z/28 db has almost 700 examples and 3 weeks is well off the norm. It depends on when a car was built. During peak Z/28 production periods it is not unusual to see engine installations 7-10 days after build. During slow production months [July '69 2 weeks, Aug '69 3 weeks] DZ engine inventory increased. When production picked up again in Sep some cars received June engines. By late Sep engine dates were back to 7-10 day installation.

Don't apply this thinking to Van Nuys. Because of the distance VN kept more engine inventory and of course it aged. Also the data hints that some engine dates are unique to a specific plant.
Interesting William.  I have noticed very few July (K) produced muncies across the board.   Most early August cars seem to have June trans., although some have a July trans.
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william
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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2012, 12:16:37 PM »

Having been in Operations, and more recently, Supply Chain most of my 41 year Mfg career some stuff is obvious to me.

No plant manager wants to be stuck with obsolete inventory at the end of a model year. The people that plan this stuff watch on hand inventories very closely. July-August were partial shutdown periods for most assembly plants so Muncie may have built ahead a bit. Plus I'll bet with the extension of the '69 Camaro model year every Chevy plant was sending left over material to Norwood. Maybe even other GM plants since Muncies were fairly generic. Why else would October '69 built Camaros have alternators produced in May? Must make the judges crazy.

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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2012, 11:02:22 PM »

Don't forget..  both Camaros and Corvettes went into extended production at that time...
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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