CRG Discussion Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 20, 2014, 04:13:54 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Welcome to the CRG Discussion Forum!
Forum registration problems: Make sure you enter your email correctly and you check your spam box first. *Then* email KurtS2@gmail for help.
105562 Posts in 12327 Topics by 4751 Members
Latest Member: Blakep54
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  CRG Discussion Forum
|-+  Camaro Research Group Discussion
| |-+  Restoration
| | |-+  are cowl and trim tags painted
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7  All Print
Author Topic: are cowl and trim tags painted  (Read 10303 times)
festival
Member
***
Posts: 125


View Profile Email
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2013, 11:12:43 AM »

Thats a version of the guy with the poor eyesight story.  The only problem with that theory is that it was done post paint line, since that is when the body black on the firewall was painted onto the tub and the white e=overspray would have to of occurred after that, either in the trim shop, or even later as it went over to GM.  At the point the cowl was painted black all of the options Fisher had to add to the car were complete except the color and style of the interior.  There would have been no reason to even glance at the cowl tag at that point, since the interior would already be on the line in the sequence that the bodies were coming down the line.  And not every car has it.  I'm not a beleiver.
The only thing GM needed to see on the cowl tag (or the BBC hanging on the car is the body number, since that was the tie to the original dealer order that defined what options went on the car untilt GM assigned a VIN to it.  After that, there was no info anyone on the GM side needed. 

I've seen them as early as 11C in 66 all the way thru 06C in 67.  A lot in the 03C thru the end of the year, but intermittent thru out the rest of the time.  Not every original one has it, but its hard to tell if others that have had spraybomb engine compartment restorations have it.  They definitely had paint applied here and there and figuring out why is what is called RESEARCH.   There doesn't seem to be any obvious option associated with it, like every custom interior car got it, or every vinyl top car got on, or SS's and Z28's got it.   They also started doing it for a reason, and quit doing it for some reason, as there are none in 68 or 69 with white paint on them.  What changed in the process, again research, not anecdotal story telling.  I don't know why they did it, but I do know it did Fisher no good, by the time it was painted.


Mark,

I have alerted some of the Norwood retirees to this thread and we have talked-so....How about you be my personal guest at the Friday Night Panel discussion where assembled before you will be Engineers, Managers, Production Superintendents, and Line personnel.     

Perfect opportunity for you to tell them exactly how things operated at the plant - that they operated.

Seriously--I will give you a seat right up front.  This will be an expanded event and I am sure you will enjoy the experience.  Grin  So let's correct the record on how production ran and the line operated how about it Mark care to take us up on it?
Logged

Mark
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 944



View Profile Email
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2013, 11:30:40 AM »

You paying my air fare?

Answer me this one question?

What parts did Fisher add to the car that are specified on the cowl tag, post Firewall blackout?

I do not question that some tags (50-60% ?) have the white paint applied, I'm just wondering what good it did Fisher at the point it had to be sprayed on the tag.  And if we assume that they quit doing it in 68 and 69 because the amount of info on the tag no longer documents anything other than interior and exterior colors and if the car had style trim or not then that means it was not used by the GM side of the plant for anything, since they only needed the body number.
Logged

Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11
festival
Member
***
Posts: 125


View Profile Email
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2013, 11:46:14 AM »

You paying my air fare?

Answer me this one question?

What parts did Fisher add to the car that are specified on the cowl tag, post Firewall blackout?

I do not question that some tags (50-60% ?) have the white paint applied, I'm just wondering what good it did Fisher at the point it had to be sprayed on the tag.  And if we assume that they quit doing it in 68 and 69 because the amount of info on the tag no longer documents anything other than interior and exterior colors and if the car had style trim or not then that means it was not used by the GM side of the plant for anything, since they only needed the body number.


No sadly I cannot pay your expenses.. You rambled on for the better part of two paragraphs and capped it off by saying that you" did not know why it was done"..

So you are being offered a fair chance to find out. 

The entire story of the tag painting episode is memorialized in the book including a photo of a car with a painted tag... you could buy the book.

Invite and the chair up front still stands.  The retirees are intrigued as to what you can educate them on.
Logged

Mark
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 944



View Profile Email
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2013, 11:57:44 AM »

See question one above, you've stated it was for fisher benifit so they could read the info on the tags easier what were they looking for after body black out occurred?

Obviously is someone sprayed a tag white somewhere between body black out in the Fisher paint shop, and front doghouse drop on the GM side, the tag would still be white, GM didn't tought the paint on the tub unless they took a ding out of it after it arrived, so that picture indicates it was done, which we both agree happened.

The retirees are more than welcome to post their views here or anywhere else they feel comfortable doing so.
Logged

Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11
festival
Member
***
Posts: 125


View Profile Email
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2013, 12:12:58 PM »

See question one above, you've stated it was for fisher benifit so they could read the info on the tags easier what were they looking for after body black out occurred?

Obviously is someone sprayed a tag white somewhere between body black out in the Fisher paint shop, and front doghouse drop on the GM side, the tag would still be white, GM didn't tought the paint on the tub unless they took a ding out of it after it arrived, so that picture indicates it was done, which we both agree happened.

The retirees are more than welcome to post their views here or anywhere else they feel comfortable doing so.

Mark,

I have made no statements within this thread whatsoever as to why the tags were painted. 

The Norwood retirees are more than happy to meet you face to face however. Grin 

The offer stands. Smiley
Logged

Mark
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 944



View Profile Email
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2013, 12:59:23 PM »

As expected, you have no wish to discuss things logically or broach any topic that does not fit your model, or share any of your thoughts with the rest of the hobby.

A) we know that Norwood painted SOME cowl tags white. - No argument (Seems like it started around 11C - maybe earlier but thats the earliest tag I can find with white paint on it)
B) we know it took place after body blackout - otherwise it would be under the blackout.
C) After body blackout the only station left on Fishers side was the trim shop (Yes/no?)

So the tag was sprayed so the guys in the trim shop could tell if a car needed style trim, or interior molding, tinted glass, standard or deluxe seatbelts, a manual or power top, or some large bumper gaurds?  I'm going to assume they could tell it was an RS, or needed a remote control mirror?  Because everything else on the tags was already done to the car, by the time it hit the front of the paint booth.

If it wasn't for the Fisher guys, and GM did it, when did it happen and who needed the info.  Does the logic not flow, am I missing some huge peice of the puzzle?
Logged

Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11
festival
Member
***
Posts: 125


View Profile Email
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2013, 02:23:11 PM »

As expected, you have no wish to discuss things logically or broach any topic that does not fit your model, or share any of your thoughts with the rest of the hobby.

A) we know that Norwood painted SOME cowl tags white. - No argument (Seems like it started around 11C - maybe earlier but thats the earliest tag I can find with white paint on it)
B) we know it took place after body blackout - otherwise it would be under the blackout.
C) After body blackout the only station left on Fishers side was the trim shop (Yes/no?)

So the tag was sprayed so the guys in the trim shop could tell if a car needed style trim, or interior molding, tinted glass, standard or deluxe seatbelts, a manual or power top, or some large bumper gaurds?  I'm going to assume they could tell it was an RS, or needed a remote control mirror?  Because everything else on the tags was already done to the car, by the time it hit the front of the paint booth.

If it wasn't for the Fisher guys, and GM did it, when did it happen and who needed the info.  Does the logic not flow, am I missing some huge peice of the puzzle?

Mark I do not need to discuss it here.  This topic is discussed in detail in the book. 

However if I wanted to expand on the topic in this thread you provide little incentive to do so, as with your accusatory attitude you will likely continue to take any answer provided in endless circles.

For the others monitoring this thread - I will say for the record that the process concerning the tag painting was a very minor human element related aspect of production (for 1967 only) and is pretty thoroughly examined in the book.

www.norwoodassemblyplant.com

Phil Borris

 
Logged

69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2451


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2013, 02:43:04 PM »

Maybe you could provide the appropriate excerpt from the book here?  for all of us to see and discuss and understand?   i'm sure there was a reason for everything they did, and it likely had something to do with cost or efficiency...  Smiley
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
69Z28
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 889


69 X33D80 Z28


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2013, 02:53:22 PM »

Yes. I would have to agree as well. Put this baby to bed!!
Logged

GaryC

'UNRESTORED' 1969 Cortez Silver X33D80 Z28
festival
Member
***
Posts: 125


View Profile Email
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2013, 02:58:35 PM »

Who ever has a copy of the book.. You have my permission to quote the passage from the book that is particular to this topic here in this thread.

Quite a few of you have it BTW...

Logged

KurtS
CRG Coordinator
*****
Posts: 3245


View Profile Email
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2013, 05:24:44 PM »

That's disappointing. You won't discuss the topic or answer any direct questions. 'See my book' is not really a discussion point. Sad
Logged

Kurt S
CRG
Hot302
Member
***
Posts: 350



View Profile
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2013, 05:29:24 PM »

I guess we have to buy the book to get the answer. That's one way to sell them.
Logged

Rick
69 RS/Z28
No Stripes
KurtS
CRG Coordinator
*****
Posts: 3245


View Profile Email
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2013, 05:41:02 PM »

It was production related. And to see it , however because the workers resisted the new computer generated  "body broadcast" print out so the trim tag containing the option content was sprayed white to make it easier to see major option content at a glance.
The trim tag had very different info than the broadcast sheet.
Fisher had the UOIT sheet which acted as an enlarged trim tag. I've definitely seen original 67 NOR tags without white paint. Other plants didn't paint the tag, btw.

The broadcast sheets had been around for a while, they were not new. And they were for Chevrolet, not Fisher so they aren't relevant here.
Logged

Kurt S
CRG
festival
Member
***
Posts: 125


View Profile Email
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2013, 05:46:03 PM »

Works for me.  I have over $10K in receipts for travel and expences for the research alone.

To those who support the book - my sincerest gratitude is extended.

Logged

Mike S
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1126



View Profile
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2013, 06:00:24 PM »

 My original 67 NOR 5B tag was not painted but this topic is interesting never the less.  I would like to see this discussed by those who state they know the answers, and to show supporting documentation where it exists is always a plus. This is a free group to join so their (Engineers, Managers, Production Superintendents, and Line personnel) registration would be most welcomed and their contribution invaluable. Case in point, John Z., who has been directly involved in portions of the manufacturing never hesitates to share is knowledge within this research group. People like that are an invaluable resource to learn from and build a solid knowledge base for all to share with others.
 I haven't been in this group long but I have seen some topics that stated one thing and after several people put their information forward  including photos, documentations, etc... that the beliefs at that time changed. One thing that comes to mind was the use of a brass oil line bulk head connector on 67 Camaros. It went from being believed it was an after market item to now an accepted fact that it did exist, but only from getting input from many people. So, the CRG beliefs can change providing there is enough supporting evidence. This white tag topic is no different. If there are those who really know and can answer the questions people like Mark put forth, then I hope they register and come forward.

Mike
Logged

67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7  All Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.092 seconds with 17 queries.