Messages

16

Originality / Re: Did all '69 Z/28's come with the tall rear bumper guards?

« on: April 25, 2019, 05:55:23 PM »

The E70-15 tires that all 69 Z's came with are very close to 27" tall.  Some give a spec of 26.9 inches.

The typical factory F70-14's hovered right around 26 inches.  Some specs show 26.2 inches.

So at most you might be looking at roughly an inch difference in circumference which would equate to about a 1/2" in effected ride height.

As William stated, Z's did in fact have a lower ride height than other Camaros when measured at "D"    Pretty sure the assembly manual also showed differences at the rocker measurements "J" and "K" and that includes the minor tire height differences as far as I can interpret.

I don't know if all this means that's why all Z's got bumper guards, but they did.   

17

General Discussion / Re: engine VIN location

« on: April 09, 2019, 02:26:52 PM »

Agree with Tim, posting pictures of those stamps and letting knowledgeable eyes have a look would be best.  Replied to your PM, sorry I couldn't help with pictures but Kurt and others here can.

18

General Discussion / Re: engine VIN location

« on: April 08, 2019, 05:24:23 PM »

The car in the pics looks like a really nice driver to me. For a real Z with no issues the price to me is about where one would start. If you want 100% correct a fair amount of things need to be done. A nice non Z seems to be $35 - $45 these days. If it all checks out all the better.

Those were my thoughts exactly, nice driver quality to have some fun with.  That's also where I would expect the price range to be for something like this.  Easy to pick this level of car apart but if someone wants something better you'll end up paying more than $50k.    One has to decide what they want to spend vs what they want for an example.

19

General Discussion / Re: engine VIN location

« on: April 08, 2019, 02:52:27 PM »

Tim, agree that someone familiar with the details should look at the car.  My original statement was towards his 3rd posted question which is why I quoted it.  There is no way anyone can deny a Z with it's original engine using the vin stamp alone, as long as things haven't been tampered with. That's what vins are for, and have been used in that fashion to document non x-code cars in a reverse prognosis as well as reuniting lost engines with known cars.  Don't necessarily even need the deck stamp.  That seemed to be the OP's concern since the engine had been decked and asking if the vin would be another way to verify original status, and my response was YES it would be as long as things are untampered.  He didn't seem to be getting a clear answer to that from anyone from what I read.  Just providing reassurance that not all is lost.

He said he would provide more pictures which I'm sure all of us would like to see.  Very hard to get a camera in the oil filter area for a clear vin picture though.   If it has in fact been inspected by JM as mentioned, this stuff should already be documented as well.

20

General Discussion / Re: engine VIN location

« on: April 08, 2019, 02:19:50 AM »

Unless you are confident in assessing partial VIN stamps and if a TT has been off the car, I would not agree with Larry that a partial VIN match to an X-coded NOR car confirms Z/28 with factory block.

Your first sentence is the key, and I pointed that out, I thought I was clear on that.  Not trying to mislead anyone.  The fact is.....  If the X-code TT is original and never removed, as well as the vin tag, and you have a good untampered vin at the oil filter on the block, then you can be pretty darn sure you're looking at a DZ engine original to the car, whether it's decked or not.  If it's all legit, then how could we not think that?  We would be kidding ourselves. 
Some people may not like it, but it's still a pretty solid verification, and how quite a few non X Z's have been verified over the years.

21

General Discussion / Re: engine VIN location

« on: April 08, 2019, 02:08:47 AM »

Thanks so much for the help , this is a buy or not buy situation for me , i will post some more pertinent info tomorrow , stamps ,vin cowl tag and so on , i refuse to believe a decked block should nix the deal if all else points to Original Z28
there is V0I9DZ on the pad but i can't see a VIN i will look very close tomorrow . thank you so much my stress level is less the more input i get

  Just keep in mind for verification of original block without a deck stamp to be viable, you have to be certain the trim tag and vin tag have never been tampered with and are legit....AND...certain the vin stamped at the oil filter pad is also legit.    In which case as I said, then you can be fairly confident it's still the original engine to the car regardless of being decked.   If there is in fact a JM report on the car, this will likely be pointed out.

I've known this process to be used on some non x-code Z's as a way to verify the cars origin or authenticity, and how some cars have been discovered,  so to say it's not a viable method of documentation on what is known as a real Z to check for it's original block that is missing it's DZ stamp is somewhat hypocritical. 

It's just an area that has to be looked at carefully before laying down money.  As others said, the 69 Z is probably the most cloned car in history and there is a lot of that to go around when there is money to be made.  If the tags looks tampered with or off in any way, or the vin doesn't match up with other stamps of the period or looks off in any way, or the vin simply isn't legible which is very common, I'd walk away.

22

General Discussion / Re: engine VIN location

« on: April 07, 2019, 03:20:59 PM »

if the vin near the oil filter matches the cars vin, would not that indicate the Motor is true to the car ? Everything  else proves out x77 z28

Yes, in instances like this, I tend to disagree with others.

That is of course if you are certain we are looking at a real Z.   For this scenario to work, for me, it would have to be a Norwood car with an X code for starters.  As long as you are certain it has a legit data plate and is original to the car, hasn't been tampered with, and is an X33 or X77 then we can be fairly comfortable it's a Z.  Other tell tail signs would help as well.   As long as the vin tag is also original and untampered with, and lines up with the build time frame, then you're off to a good start.

From there, really the vin at the oil filter would be enough to confirm it's the original block, as long as you're certain that vin is original and untampered.    At this point there is enough evidence you are looking at the original block. If all that checks out it wouldn't scare me a bit and would have little affect on value in my opinion.   The deck stamp isn't the "tell all" and they are frequently messed with, but it's certainly nice to have if it's real.    What saves a car like this, in this instance, is that Norwood was thankfully stamping vins at the oil filter by this time frame.  Otherwise all would be lost.

What's interesting is that this process has been used to verify LOS built Z's that have no X code, by verifying the vin at the oil filter matches the car  LOL.  Sort of reverse prognosis.  So to say it's not a viable means of verification on an X code Z is a bit odd.

Decking the block isn't that uncommon.  Many were done back in the day when these cars weren't worth much so it's not unusual to see.  So many of these engines (all models) have terrible deck surface heights that very several thousandths front to back, side to side, some blocks are actually twisted.  Doing a proper rebuild almost always includes "squaring" up the block after align honing which means sometimes a light pass on the decks to sometimes taking off several thousandths.
  Then you can get into the "zero" decking scenario where builders want tight quench for better mixture motion, fends off detonation, makes more power with less timing required etc....  Some move piston pin heights, some deck the block, or a combination of both.

23

General Discussion / Re: Distributor cam lubricator

« on: March 20, 2019, 05:30:59 PM »

The Accel points are still supplied with a new felt and lube which is nice, exactly like what Mike posted from Paragon.  So if that's what you're looking for Maroman, I believe Accel is the only one out there still doing it.

24

General Discussion / Re: Z28 for sale on CL

« on: February 24, 2019, 11:36:47 PM »

Well yea,once you go to start it,and the blades open....gotta keep your head in it when working on something🙆‍♂️ .

Exactly, once you start the engine and blip the throttle, game over.   I tend to believe if the issue goes that far, then the person wasn't even aware they dropped something in the carb to begin with.

25

General Discussion / Re: Z28 for sale on CL

« on: February 24, 2019, 03:53:01 PM »

Wont go anywhere with the throttle blades closed    Magnet pulls it right out.

I've dropped air bleeds before, which are tiny and made of brass, tuning while test driving.  Even that doesn't get past the throttle blades.   A stick with bubble gum does the trick 

26

General Discussion / Re: Who would be interested in buying a replacement passenger seat cable?

« on: February 24, 2019, 03:27:24 PM »

I never paid attention to mine but this got me curious.  Since we use ours daily and frequently use the back seat, I already knew the passenger seat would lay forward on the dash.  So I figured it wasn't there.

I looked and sure enough it was actually there.  Someone had disconnected the lower half and looped it up to the upper connection.  I guess they didn't like it.  Looking at it now, it does appear rather short, so not sure I even want to hook it back up.  It's nice to lay the seat all the way forward to access the back.  I may temporarily hook it up for giggles just to check it but it looks like it will limit the seat from at least half of it's movement making rear seat access more difficult.

27

General Discussion / Re: downpipe compatability with L48 stock exhaust manifold

« on: February 23, 2019, 03:11:10 PM »

Not trying to sell you on it, but with your cam change and head work it does seem that you are at least a little performance oriented.  In which case I'd be looking at the 2 1/2" mandrel kits.  But I'm one that likes to make them run as well as they look without sacrificing the stock appearances, so I'm a little bias.
     My tests have all been done through the stock manifolds as well.  There is a lot to be found with just the exhaust pipe upgrades with these cars.  I talk to a lot of the PS guys, which is what my Formula as well as my Z was built to conform with.  Rules allow a maximum of a 2 1/2" system as one of the few areas an upgrade is allowed, but they all run stock exhaust manifolds per rules.  Most will tell you, no matter what the car or engine, that the exhaust pipes are one of the single most improvements made on their cars, and my testing has shown that as well.   Matter of fact, a lot of engine dyno testing has shown that the biggest improvement in the systems are the down pipes right off the manifolds.  That first bend off the manifolds is the most critical.  Going from a crush bend down pipe to a mandrel bend down pipe, and no exhaust system afterwards on an engine dyno, has shown as much as a 12hp difference alone on some engines.
  Crazy to think about, but thought I'd share. 
    I went with the stock tail pipes on my Z because I do want to have a stock outward appearance, as that's really all you see, the rest of the system can't even be seen unless you're crawling on the ground.   But by all means, go with a reproduction system if you're looking for concours appearances and not that worried about performance.  It would certainly be an easier system to bolt on and function perfectly fine.

28

General Discussion / Re: downpipe compatability with L48 stock exhaust manifold

« on: February 22, 2019, 09:16:12 PM »

Yes stock hangers.  However it should be mentioned the rear tail pipe hangers worked after I adapted the stock tail pipes to the system.  Since the stock tailpipes are 2" diameter, and the hangers are designed for that.  The stock hangers wouldn't fit around the 2 1/2" tail pipes that come with the system.    Which was fine as my plan all along was to adapt stock tail pipes for a "correct" appearance.

For anyone interested as far as performance goes, I'll have numbers to post in a couple months on the Z from it's original born with exhaust system that was still on the car, to the Pypes system, that should be interesting.
  I did a bunch of testing on this years back on my Formula 400, with a reproduction Garner system vs an aftermarket 2 1/2" mandrel bent system.  Both transverse systems.  The bird picked up a solid 4 tenths ET and a little over 3 mph with just the exhaust, still running through the manifolds, didn't touch anything else.  The stock crush bend systems on these cars really choke them down, and even on a stock build I find it's probably the biggest, and easiest improvement made in ET and MPH, that is if you're into making these things run as good as they look.

29

General Discussion / Re: downpipe compatability with L48 stock exhaust manifold

« on: February 22, 2019, 02:09:16 PM »

Nice to see Magnaflow came out with a transverse system.

You have 2 other options, both that I've used.

The cheapest kit is made by dynomax, their thrush 89021 kit that is $260 at Summit.  It's a regular steel exhaust with an aluminized coating.  Nice mellow sound.  Only down side is they don't offer down pipes that I've seen if you are running manifolds.

The other is from Pypes.  I've used this one a lot.  It's stainless steel, and the cheapest stainless kit I've seen.  SGF70 is for all F-body 1st and 2nd gen transverse setups.  Right now Summit is having a sale on it for $550.  Pypes also sells mandrel bent down pypes separately to work with exhaust manifolds to complete the systems if you don't run headers.

I run 3 of these systems, a little more aggressive sounding than the dynomax but still very tolerable and nice for cruising with no drone.

Here's a quick sound clip of this system on my Z.  I grafted in the factory tailpipes for a stock appearance, which also helped to subdue the sound level just a touch.

Idle
https://youtu.be/IZ0HlEY7b74

Cruise
https://youtu.be/7a3lMwoM-7c   

30

General Discussion / Re: Emission Stickers 69 Camaro

« on: February 19, 2019, 07:37:53 PM »

Interesting Vince.   Arizona has been all over the map when it comes to that.  When I moved out here from Ohio we had to go through the vin verification process and take each car to the DMV.  Had 12 cars at that time so it was painstaking. 

Now they don't do that anymore.  The last couple cars I bought out of state I just walk into the DMV, fully expecting to go through the vin verification process, only to have the title issued, pay the fees, and I'm on my way, they don't even look at the car now.

It's the dormant cars that have become an issue lately.  Re-registering cars I haven't had plates on in over 10 years was a new experience.  I found that they were purged from the system and didn't exist anymore.  I had to pay a fee to recreate the car, which took a couple of days for them to first do a title search on and make sure it wasn't stolen or didn't have leans on it, then return to the DMV to issue a new title and tags.  Yet they still didn't want to see the car in that case either.

Strange sometimes.