1051
General Discussion / Re: The 10 Best Vehicles General Motors Has Ever Built ??
« on: May 08, 2015, 07:45:43 PM »
WOW, what a tough list. I sure wouldn't want to be the guy to narrow that down to just 10 cars.
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1052
General Discussion / Re: 1969 Z28 Garage find after 20 years!
« on: May 07, 2015, 04:49:17 PM »
If this is in fact a 12B build (if I'm reading that right?) 2nd week of December 68 would indeed be a short spoiler. So that could be originally applied, but have to see under the decklid for more clues.
Basically would have to see the car in person to make any determination on value for me, but I do agree Bullitt, would be a neat car to go through the drivetrain on to make it dependable, and drive as is to enjoy without worry. Was thinking of doing the same thing with mine. I rarely ever sell any of my stuff so I'm not in the hobby to flip cars and make money, but I certainly don't care to get in over my head on one either when you figure asking price and cost of restoration, then given what ever the current private sale market is on a particular car. That's how I look at it because eventually I'll be too old to enjoy these things and they'll have to go somewhere
Basically would have to see the car in person to make any determination on value for me, but I do agree Bullitt, would be a neat car to go through the drivetrain on to make it dependable, and drive as is to enjoy without worry. Was thinking of doing the same thing with mine. I rarely ever sell any of my stuff so I'm not in the hobby to flip cars and make money, but I certainly don't care to get in over my head on one either when you figure asking price and cost of restoration, then given what ever the current private sale market is on a particular car. That's how I look at it because eventually I'll be too old to enjoy these things and they'll have to go somewhere
1053
General Discussion / Re: 1969 Z28 Garage find after 20 years!
« on: May 07, 2015, 02:40:17 PM »
Neat find. Cost quite a bit to restore correctly. Makes it hard for me to justify the price he's looking for unless.... all the right parts and pieces, even the little things, would have to be there for that kind of money.
1054
General Discussion / Re: Car makers want to make it illegal for car owners to work on their own car!
« on: April 29, 2015, 12:47:33 PM »
Just another reason why I have no real interest in owning new cars. Not on the market for one and haven't bought a new car in a dozen years or so. I prefer to keep driving my classics, thankfully my wife is the same way. Nothing wrong with the KISS principle. I like to say technoligy peaked for me in about 1975, lol. In a sense that's true for me, but I still tune the LS engines with my laptop and enjoy fuel injection for what it's capable of. In the end though if forced to make a choice, I'll ditch it all for the classics with carbs and points, I'm perfectly happy driving those, that's what you'll find me in 99% of the time anyway.
1055
General Discussion / Re: modded temp gauge for smaller sending unit anyone?????
« on: April 28, 2015, 11:04:04 PM »
Aaron,
I've drilled and tapped several heads for the large temp sender with the LS retro swaps I've done for myself and others, while the engine is assembled. It's really not bad at all, however I have the engines out and on the stand and do it before I drop them in.
I've bought alot of complete and perfectly running LS engines so disassembly isn't in the cards. Since they have metric threaded holes, I drill and tap them for the standard pipe to install factory senders so original gauges in the classic vehicles work.
All I do is grease the drill bit, and pull it every few seconds to clean and regrease, and work slow. Do the same with the tap, every couple revolutions I clean and regrease and work slow. I've done it this way a dozen times and never an issue. I have pictures of the last one I did if you wish to see, but it's pretty straight forward. After it's up and running I flush the cooling system for any possible debri, just an extra precaution but I've never found anything. They've all run thousands of miles without complaint.
My thought process was, even if a shaving got in there, what's it going to do? Chew a water pump bushing? A water pump replacement on an LS engine is a heck of alot cheaper than $200 worth of MLS head gaskets and new head bolts (torque to yield can't be reused) needed to remove a cylinder head.
I understand a gen 1 is cheaper in that respect, but just laying out the situation I've been in countless times that forced this decision. No complaints here.
I've drilled and tapped several heads for the large temp sender with the LS retro swaps I've done for myself and others, while the engine is assembled. It's really not bad at all, however I have the engines out and on the stand and do it before I drop them in.
I've bought alot of complete and perfectly running LS engines so disassembly isn't in the cards. Since they have metric threaded holes, I drill and tap them for the standard pipe to install factory senders so original gauges in the classic vehicles work.
All I do is grease the drill bit, and pull it every few seconds to clean and regrease, and work slow. Do the same with the tap, every couple revolutions I clean and regrease and work slow. I've done it this way a dozen times and never an issue. I have pictures of the last one I did if you wish to see, but it's pretty straight forward. After it's up and running I flush the cooling system for any possible debri, just an extra precaution but I've never found anything. They've all run thousands of miles without complaint.
My thought process was, even if a shaving got in there, what's it going to do? Chew a water pump bushing? A water pump replacement on an LS engine is a heck of alot cheaper than $200 worth of MLS head gaskets and new head bolts (torque to yield can't be reused) needed to remove a cylinder head.
I understand a gen 1 is cheaper in that respect, but just laying out the situation I've been in countless times that forced this decision. No complaints here.
1056
General Discussion / Re: CHARLOTTE AUTOFAIR, APRIL 9-12
« on: April 28, 2015, 12:56:23 AM »
Been about 1987 or 88 since I've been there, bought a car back then. Test drove around the track. Good times. Was always one of my favorite swap meets. Would also like to see pics of how things are now.
1057
General Discussion / Re: Time to buy a real deal ZL-1!
« on: April 23, 2015, 01:50:28 PM »
Thanks for the PM's and clearification.
1058
General Discussion / Re: Time to buy a real deal ZL-1!
« on: April 23, 2015, 02:43:17 AM »
For someone that doesn't spend much time on a computer....and doesn't speak short hand, what does EO stand for?
1059
General Discussion / Re: rebody Z made Hot Rod
« on: April 20, 2015, 04:52:06 PM »
Thanks for the PM's and clearification.
1060
General Discussion / Re: rebody Z made Hot Rod
« on: April 20, 2015, 02:49:32 AM »
I guess I don't understand, I don't get hotrod. Is there something about the car that is bothering collectors?
What's the story with the RS front grill emblem?
What's the story with the RS front grill emblem?
1061
General Discussion / Re: Time to buy a real deal ZL-1!
« on: April 17, 2015, 09:08:26 PM »
I wouldn't fit in very well
1062
General Discussion / Re: Time to buy a real deal ZL-1!
« on: April 16, 2015, 04:33:24 PM »
I could go on about anomalies on original cars of other brands that I own, and even one that my father bought new and still owns today that I find pretty interesting. It happened everywhere in big 3 production.
1063
General Discussion / Re: Time to buy a real deal ZL-1!
« on: April 16, 2015, 02:42:45 PM »
Thanks,
One point I was trying to make and didn't come across very well.. In 1969 a new buyer sees the ZL1 in the showroom, it has a sticker on the air cleaner. Whether that was put on at the factory or added at the dealer, I don't think the new owner cares (I certainly wouldn't have questioned it). Now here we are 47 years later and all the original owner can tell you is that "yes it had a decal on it when I bought the car new" Would we have any way of determining 47 years later if it was a factory goof or dealer installed??
One point I was trying to make and didn't come across very well.. In 1969 a new buyer sees the ZL1 in the showroom, it has a sticker on the air cleaner. Whether that was put on at the factory or added at the dealer, I don't think the new owner cares (I certainly wouldn't have questioned it). Now here we are 47 years later and all the original owner can tell you is that "yes it had a decal on it when I bought the car new" Would we have any way of determining 47 years later if it was a factory goof or dealer installed??
1064
General Discussion / Re: Time to buy a real deal ZL-1!
« on: April 16, 2015, 01:12:53 PM »
How about another curve ball thrown in...
This may be reaching but I see it entirely possible (this happened alot with fan caution decals in the Ford camp when cars came in for service) Since alot of these cars didn't sell right away, alot were sent back or distributed around the country at various dealerships....Isn't it entirely possible that those dealers, or even Gibbs himself saw fit to run over to the parts department and stick "427 decals on themselves when the cars were only days or weeks old??
I mean, without the decal, and no identification on the outside of the car, I'm sure there were alot of people back then that didn't know what they were looking at, and could have easily mistaken the cars for 396's that cost $7,000. Since they were a hard sale I could see dealers doing things to push these cars out the door. The iron block COPO's had air cleaner decals.....so could it be possible that dealers thought,,,,hey why not??
Just a thought, and speculation on my part, but a possibility. Either way I certainly wouldn't kick it out of the garage just because of a $6 decal. Just buy another lid and switch it back and forth. If you can afford the car, you can afford another air cleaner lid
What I do like about this hobby is that there are still original unrestored cars out there that show things weren't always cut in stone, and some people aren't afraid to restore a car that doesn't follow what is widely accepted as correct. William has posted enough information to suggest that sticker or no sticker is entirely possible. What pains me are restorations that are done on original cars, and things are changed just because that's what is accepted in the main stream or due to peer pressure with judges and the like. I have an unrestored car here that has a few oddities about it, but are viewed as entirely possible by other "supposed" experts that have seen the car. So I don't necessarily see this decal issue as incorrect.
This may be reaching but I see it entirely possible (this happened alot with fan caution decals in the Ford camp when cars came in for service) Since alot of these cars didn't sell right away, alot were sent back or distributed around the country at various dealerships....Isn't it entirely possible that those dealers, or even Gibbs himself saw fit to run over to the parts department and stick "427 decals on themselves when the cars were only days or weeks old??
I mean, without the decal, and no identification on the outside of the car, I'm sure there were alot of people back then that didn't know what they were looking at, and could have easily mistaken the cars for 396's that cost $7,000. Since they were a hard sale I could see dealers doing things to push these cars out the door. The iron block COPO's had air cleaner decals.....so could it be possible that dealers thought,,,,hey why not??
Just a thought, and speculation on my part, but a possibility. Either way I certainly wouldn't kick it out of the garage just because of a $6 decal. Just buy another lid and switch it back and forth. If you can afford the car, you can afford another air cleaner lid
What I do like about this hobby is that there are still original unrestored cars out there that show things weren't always cut in stone, and some people aren't afraid to restore a car that doesn't follow what is widely accepted as correct. William has posted enough information to suggest that sticker or no sticker is entirely possible. What pains me are restorations that are done on original cars, and things are changed just because that's what is accepted in the main stream or due to peer pressure with judges and the like. I have an unrestored car here that has a few oddities about it, but are viewed as entirely possible by other "supposed" experts that have seen the car. So I don't necessarily see this decal issue as incorrect.
1065
General Discussion / Re: Why I am worried about Body Work Guys in General
« on: April 14, 2015, 08:34:05 PM »
I should explain why I feel it's a result of going to cheap body shops. Yeah they've seen the cars, they have a general idea how things should be, but they don't take the time to research nor do they care enough to spend extra time on the car doing it correctly. Honestly alot of owners on the cheap just don't care either as long as it's close.
To be frank about it, it really starts with the owner of the car unwilling to spend the money to go to a top notch shop and PAY for time involved in these cars to do one correctly. Stripes aren't quite right, finishes are wrong, emblems are wrong etc. etc.... Most people go where ever they get the best quote to do the work and/or it's most convenient. It doesn't mean the car will get done correctly and likely things will be missed. That was the gist of the whole "lack of funds" comment. You get one quote for $5,000 and another for $25,000 where do you think 90% of the population will go? I'd bet my money that a nagging wife, kids in college, will make the obvious choice for most people
I can't tell you how many supposed 69 Z28's I've seen with rear spoilers that have the stripes extend below the spoiler onto the decklid. Very common rookie mistake that alot of body shops do. Most owners have no clue either because the car never started life as a Z28 to begin with. Must be 40,000 of those cars running around now, lol. Saw one at a cruise this past weekend that had an AC box on the firewall, a 10 bolt, and an automatic, LOL.
Paint jobs aren't cheap anymore. The cost of materials is ridiculous compared to just 10 years ago. Money doesn't go as far as it used to. People just don't want to pay $10,000-$20,000 just to shoot a car these days (those prices don't include labor to get the car ready to shoot in most shops).
I usually spend about $1500 minimum just on primers, paint, reducers, hardeners, clear, etc....that can reach $3,000 pretty quick depending on colors and brands. So yeah people are going to go where it's most reasonable and yet still try to get quality for their money, who can blame them. Unfortunately you sometimes wind up with examples shown. Like I said earlier, I have a customer right now that's too cheap to buy a $40 stencil kit on a Mach 1 I'm doing. He's lucky that I happen to own an original paint SCJ Mach 1 I can take measurements from. And that's the key. When you have to lay stuff out by hand, you can't always use another cars that's been painted. What if that's not exactly right?? You need an original paint car in my opinion if you want to take notes and are too cheap to buy inexpensive stencils. How many shops are going to take the time to do that? If it wasn't figured into the original quote, and the owner gripes about more money, my guess is, not many shops
You take the car to Tieman and it will come back correct, but the average person won't spend 6 figures on a restoration either. That's really what I was getting at earlier. I see this all the time in the business.
To be frank about it, it really starts with the owner of the car unwilling to spend the money to go to a top notch shop and PAY for time involved in these cars to do one correctly. Stripes aren't quite right, finishes are wrong, emblems are wrong etc. etc.... Most people go where ever they get the best quote to do the work and/or it's most convenient. It doesn't mean the car will get done correctly and likely things will be missed. That was the gist of the whole "lack of funds" comment. You get one quote for $5,000 and another for $25,000 where do you think 90% of the population will go? I'd bet my money that a nagging wife, kids in college, will make the obvious choice for most people
I can't tell you how many supposed 69 Z28's I've seen with rear spoilers that have the stripes extend below the spoiler onto the decklid. Very common rookie mistake that alot of body shops do. Most owners have no clue either because the car never started life as a Z28 to begin with. Must be 40,000 of those cars running around now, lol. Saw one at a cruise this past weekend that had an AC box on the firewall, a 10 bolt, and an automatic, LOL.
Paint jobs aren't cheap anymore. The cost of materials is ridiculous compared to just 10 years ago. Money doesn't go as far as it used to. People just don't want to pay $10,000-$20,000 just to shoot a car these days (those prices don't include labor to get the car ready to shoot in most shops).
I usually spend about $1500 minimum just on primers, paint, reducers, hardeners, clear, etc....that can reach $3,000 pretty quick depending on colors and brands. So yeah people are going to go where it's most reasonable and yet still try to get quality for their money, who can blame them. Unfortunately you sometimes wind up with examples shown. Like I said earlier, I have a customer right now that's too cheap to buy a $40 stencil kit on a Mach 1 I'm doing. He's lucky that I happen to own an original paint SCJ Mach 1 I can take measurements from. And that's the key. When you have to lay stuff out by hand, you can't always use another cars that's been painted. What if that's not exactly right?? You need an original paint car in my opinion if you want to take notes and are too cheap to buy inexpensive stencils. How many shops are going to take the time to do that? If it wasn't figured into the original quote, and the owner gripes about more money, my guess is, not many shops
You take the car to Tieman and it will come back correct, but the average person won't spend 6 figures on a restoration either. That's really what I was getting at earlier. I see this all the time in the business.