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16  Model Specific Discussions / Trans-Am Camaros / Re: Racing AMX Information on: December 12, 2013, 08:48:49 PM
According to Jon here, the #4 car was heavily damaged the weekend before at St Jovite

I did not say the #4 was heavily damaged, it was the #3. I just flubbed the year.

I'm just curious if the #3 car that was wrecked at St Jovite in '69 was repaired or scrapped and replaced with one of the "spare" team cars.

I'm sorry Jon, I didn't double check what you had said earlier and mixed the two cars up, 3 & 4.

Steve
17  Model Specific Discussions / Trans-Am Camaros / Re: Racing AMX Information on: December 12, 2013, 03:24:04 PM
According to Jon here, the #4 car was heavily damaged the weekend before at St Jovite 8/3/'69. That is why Ronnie called upon Gordon Dewar- #47 to come down to W G.

Steve
18  Model Specific Discussions / Trans-Am Camaros / Re: Racing AMX Information on: December 12, 2013, 02:18:20 PM
Im going to shift gears, in the meanwhile, back to AMX related matters, though there is a Penske connection involved.
Randall. I want to be careful in my approach. But something has been bothering me and perhaps some light can shine on the best way to approach subsequent information gathering.

Jim Alexander and Phil Toney made a visit to the Randalls sometime in the early 2000's it seems. What is unclear is who they spoke with, and what they saw. But klvn8r spoke with Jim Alexander and his view from that conversation was that someone told Jim and Phil that the former T.E.A.M. #6 car had been crushed. At the very least, the car was unavailable, OR UNRECOGNIZABLE, on the day they visited.

Over the years various other sources have said something akin to that "… the #6 car is believed crushed years ago…","… as far as we know, the #6 AMX was destroyed…" ( paraphrasing in both "quotes" ). Yet, Daniel Strohl from Hemmings wrote an article back in 2005 that the family owns the former T.E.A.M. car. Back then he did not write, owned, but owns. In the present tense when he wrote about it.

Cory Randall has told me (2012) that his family owns the #6 T.E.A.M. car. Strange, yes? And something that needs verification, either way. Time and again, when it comes to checking out the history, specifications, how to do things, you name it, what people say isn't necessarily what is. For things AMC this seems to be particularly true. There are many reasons why but don't wish to get side-tracked.

The important thing is to find out the truth, and the fate, behind this historically vital AMC icon. So, considering the importance of success in finding the real answer, I am soliciting advice from any and all about how to accomplish that.

The Penske connection is the reference in pictures and articles to the '71 Javelin the family owns. It has been described as an ex-Penske car.  Don't know if they still own it or what to look for on it, if they have it, to identify it correctly.
19  Model Specific Discussions / Trans-Am Camaros / Re: Racing AMX Information on: December 12, 2013, 01:44:41 PM
Well, there we have it. Thank you Adam. It would be of interest to determine which Javelin he sold him, but it is also pretty clear from all the details present on the car that it probably was very closely allied to the number 3 & 4 car in terms of modification and intended use. From Dewar could also be gleaned details, and in particular, if Canadian racing postings don't materialize, at what point in '69 he received the car.


Steve
20  Model Specific Discussions / Trans-Am Camaros / Re: Racing AMX Information on: December 12, 2013, 01:16:33 PM
Not only is Gordon Dewar fleshing out as a colorful ( massive understatement ) personality from the various anecdotes written about him in  looking into his background, and certainly not an impression diminished after reading the newspaper article above, but the increasing build-up through Adam's detective work that Dewar's car and person bears no mere happenstance or chance relationship with Ronnie Kaplan. I strongly suspect much mutual trust and respect went on between the two men for Kaplan to be retained as a crew chief on one of three March 707's ever built and a former Amon car to boot!

Steve
21  Model Specific Discussions / Trans-Am Camaros / Re: Racing AMX Information on: December 12, 2013, 12:49:06 PM
Robert,
 I'm also thinking that the Canadian motorsport history writer from the Sandcastle email is referring to the other "Trans Am" appearances by Dewar when he means the Canadian series that Adam showed aresult from. It is pretty evident that the writer must be French Canadian given his English sentence structure. If so, perhaps this other Robert could be tracked down? Perhaps he hails from Montreal?

Steve
22  Model Specific Discussions / Trans-Am Camaros / Re: Racing AMX Information on: December 12, 2013, 12:44:57 PM
Robert,
  Are you certain? I recall seeing reference to a Dewar award in 2005 in which the author mentions Gordon Dewar in recent ( to then in '05 ) times.

Steve
23  Model Specific Discussions / Trans-Am Camaros / Re: Racing AMX Information on: December 12, 2013, 11:15:05 AM
It appears also that in order, aside from finding Gordon Dewar himself, to find out more about the Dewar car that motorsport photos will be the means for seeing what configuration his 47 Javelin sported in Canada. Would Mr. Kaplan remember anything about the Dewar's car's origins?

S A
24  Model Specific Discussions / Trans-Am Camaros / Re: Racing AMX Information on: December 12, 2013, 11:07:22 AM
Let me outline my intent, to further knowledge and study, wherever that search leads. I greatly appreciate your joining the discussion, Adam.

Interesting Javelins.There are more articles on the one with the Kaplan hood and stock looking fenders and rear quarters. The 21 car has a more extensive background, which I may revisit later.

Regarding the G D #47, the wheels are what helped differentiate this car from the #4 car. Thank you. The flares are subtley different as well with flat lip extensions that are very noticeable compared to the 4 car and very close to the #3 car - http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=8328.0 - color action pic near bottom of pg. 1.

The holes I drew attention to earlier on the #47 decklid and end caps are identical in placement and purpose to the nmbr(s) 3 and 4. They secure the decklid. http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=8328.75 - b & w #3 car in pits being pushed excellent shot of decklid pin, lanyard, and attachment through rear quarter panel end cap.

 Thank you, Adam, yes it would appear that the TA cars have the third hood pin: http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=8328.0 Page 1, a third way down, b & w,
John Martin's car.

There is a Kaplan car, the number 2, which does not show up once the season is underway, but is in preseason photos, both in the Phi Beta Kaplan! article from Cars ( thanks Jon ) and the 1969 Trans Am season review - pg 7 - b & w small inset ' Inside the Cars of Trans Am'http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=9860.90

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=9860.0 pg 1 very first article mentions what American Motors will be doing for the upcoming '69 season. It discusses two team cars and two cars held in reserve. That is an interesting point. The Dewar car bears closer attention. Not necessarily as a potential reserve team car, though it is fascinating that Dewar comes down from Canada to provide just such a reserve function for the Watkins Glen race later in the year. The details of the car that jump out, to me, removes this car from oddball status to important customer car that contains all the "A" team markers- 3 pin fiberglass "huge" hood, wheel lips that closely match # 3's, the signature rear deckled security, no rear spoiler, quick fill fuel cell system through the deckled, and very similar front bumper license plate indent cover with the fastener holes in very similar locations.
    
 Makes one wonder, as money got tight, what happened to at least one reserve car…I think we can agree that the Dewar car appears to be a definite  candidate as a Kaplan customer car.

S A
25  Model Specific Discussions / Trans-Am Camaros / Re: Racing AMX Information on: December 12, 2013, 02:36:05 AM
The spoiler is very '69 Kaplanesque.
26  Model Specific Discussions / Trans-Am Camaros / Re: Racing AMX Information on: December 12, 2013, 12:41:35 AM
I'd like to know a bit more about this car! It has all the traits of an RKE javelin?
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3177576/1969-amc-javelin/

That car is enough different it could be the subject of its own thread. If you can log on there it would be helpful if they have more pics and documents. The paint looks like the '68 #25 RKE Javelin. Apart from the upper ball joint suspension it doesn't jump out as an RKE car given how stock it is.

S A
27  Model Specific Discussions / Trans-Am Camaros / Re: Racing AMX Information on: December 11, 2013, 11:14:49 PM
Check the rear end caps and decklid on the 4 car:http://www.carcraft.com/thehistoryof/trans_am_racing_early_years/photo_06.html

Compare to the b & w pick where you can just make out some dark spots on the rear quarter end caps and decklid:

Steve
28  Model Specific Discussions / Trans-Am Camaros / Re: Racing AMX Information on: December 11, 2013, 03:37:50 PM
Thanks! This is some help and then some. Need to get a copy of the Friedman book. Maybe I can buy a good used copy.

   It looks as though starting with WG that the 10 car which used to be the 33 car now belonged to Rocky Mountain Racing and I do believe the 10 and 33 car pics have been compared and discussed before. In addition, the #3 '68 Revson car blurb on Fantasy Junction -http://fantasyjunction.com/cars/773-AMC-Javelin%20Trans-Am-V8 and in other discussions elsewhere indicate that the #3 which sold a few years back in its original '68 livery lists the # 3, Tullius, Hunter, 3 history. Russo & Steele recently auctioning the car:http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1968-AMC-Javelin-Trans-Am/1462 descrribes the 33/Tullius relation and 10/Hunter relationship.
   
So, what remains yet is tracing the beginnings of the # 47 car. Klvnr8r or his brother may shine abeacon on that if one of them can come up with the article that apparently shows the 3 Kaplan cars in his shop pre or early '69 season. Was the 3rd car a body in white? Does it have a domed hood, or at least, signature fender bulges? Stay tuned erstwhile TA fans, let the nail biting begin... Grin

 S A
29  Model Specific Discussions / Trans-Am Camaros / Re: Racing AMX Information on: December 11, 2013, 02:10:00 PM
Awesome. That narrows down the potential confusion as well as pinpointing that the number 4 car and the number 47 cars cannot be one and the same at the same race. The number 4 car is out of the picture, and the number 3 car is separate and distinct from the number 47 car at the same race. Now, finding a photo of both the #'s 55 or 33 at this race will help. Then it is left up to contacting Dewar ( is he still alive? ) or someone else familiar with JNO Racing Enterprises Ltd.which was described as being in a converted grocery store location in Hull( across from Ottawa ) Canada at the time (1971) by photographer ( then - Ottawa Baby Photographers ), Allan De La Plante.

Steve
30  Model Specific Discussions / Trans-Am Camaros / Re: Racing AMX Information on: December 11, 2013, 12:37:51 AM
Ok, I need some help from some of the other guys here. I've tracked down more information on the Dewar Javelin. Below is a picture of it attributed to St. Jovite, the week before Watkins Glen in '69. Now, here's where your assistance comes into play,  the same car can't be 2 cars at the same place at the same time. So, some better accounting than Racing Sportscars posts must be available. If it is not, then the # 47 Dewar car is the #4 Kaplan car in JNO Racing Enterprises Ltd.livery but is the 4 car. Yet separate references to the car, such as where I got the photo:http://kzmotorsports.com/911L-Race-History-Overview.html- photo 15, the car is referred
to, naturally, as the #47 Dewar Javelin. Yet, when one goes here:http://www.racingsportscars.com/type/results/AMC/Javelin.html and one goes to the 1969 results the connundrum presents itself. Check out the entries for the St.Jovite race on August 3rd of 1969 and then check out the entries listed for the Watkins Glen race on August 8th. See the problem? The discrepancy needs deconfliction.

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