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1  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT? on: September 06, 2014, 05:12:21 PM
Back in the day we pretty much supplied Oshawa car and truck plants in Ontario. Less than a 2 hour drive and Ste Therese in Quebec about 4 hours. Now we don't have much of that with Oshawa shutting down and Ste Therese gone. 7 car plants in Ontario all within 2 hours and we only have 2% of the business. Gee we even ship to Brazil ! Honda Allliston car and van plants are only 30 miles away and we have none of it. Apparently a Chinese company got the Civic contract and are building a glass plant in OHIO.
2  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT? on: September 05, 2014, 01:35:37 PM
 And lets add heated wipers and satellite antennae (onstar) to the mix of 11 and still the occasional windshield gets in the wrong rack (wrist slap BAD BAD Collingwood PILKINTON)
 So what we need is a few more 02D built cars with original march backlites to confirm if this may have happened. If it turns out there is only one then I would say doubtful !
3  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT? on: September 05, 2014, 12:23:47 PM
The date code is 99% for us. Its just if some defect comes up at GM or another Auto maker we supply for them to be able to set aside and contain the spill quickly before more get into cars (costs us a ton of money when that happens). So the two things they look at are the shipping date of the shipping ticket and the date code on the glass. Then we send guys there to sort or worse they hire an outside company. Either way shit rolls down hill.
No I was talking an emergency situation say 27th of feb we get a call from gm someone screwed up and we need glass asap or you will shut our plant down. We have a certain amount of time to get the glass there or the shutdown cost is billed to us. So you are talking big effin scramble. THIS DOES HAPPEN !! Monogram date is mainly for us, at that point GM could care less about a date code. So they put the first ten off in rack load it our plant van rushed to Oshawa where he can drive the thing right to the windshield station with minutes to spare for production on the 27th.  IT CAN AND DOES HAPPEN  not often but I have seen it. Now the stars have to be in alignment at the end of the month but yeah it can happen but its still very unlikely.
 Now here is something everyone should know. Parking lot hot day someone's backlite pops. Not as common nowadays as all backlites have a finished edge, Back in the day when the edge was just seamed with a wet 80 grit seaming belt it was very common. Tempered glass can break at any time hot or cold if it has an edge defect in it. So backlite pops right out in the parking lot of the factory and replacedthere or in transit and is replaced at  the dealer.

 Now along with the date code we also put "which run of the month it is" on the glass denoted by from one to 5 dots. Windshields are getting more complicated The jeep Liberty has 11 different part#'s off of the same glass along with heads up display "HUD", acoustic plastic rain sensors and combinations of them all.The Camaro with HUD and acoustic vinyl.
 All I am saying is its possible unlikely but possible and only for a very short run> Not a normal circumstance

4  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT? on: September 05, 2014, 10:19:11 AM
 Well I am probably going to jump into some DO DO again. Normative practice and required by GM is to have a "3 week supply" of finished glass in the system. Up to 12 weeks close to our labor contract expiring. In theory that works well in practice eh not. So GM makes 20 thousand Camaros a month  A tempering furnace can make 8 thousand backlites in 24 hours. They run the sidelites and rear quarters as double lines ( both side lites at the same time, both rear quarters at the same time) So doing the math that is approx. 8 furnace days a month. so obviously lots of other windows for other cars and trucks are made on that furnace during the month. I have stated in a thread on Team Camaro that its possible for later year production models to have all 8 (67) or 6 (68,69) different date codes on a car with all original glass. Our date codes were not "required" by GM to match their production dates.
So the date code serves two purposes.
So here is what happens. At the load end the furnace was hand loaded. Rack of glass is pushed up ready to load. The ticket on the rack is recorded date time and MONOGRAM and date code verified. Loader picks a piece of glass sets it on the monogram machine where the monogram is sandblasted onto the lite and loads it onto the front conveyor and does this 400-500 times and hour depending on part size. Glass goes through the furnace pressed quenched (tempered) run through a lighted inspection area Monogram verified again. Then picked off the end of the line by another inspector onto a size fixture checked and passed onto a packer who packs 165 into a rack or smaller parts 330 into a double rack. During this time the furnace operator twice an hour pulls a piece checks size and verifies the Monogram and date code again. Once every two hours the Quality assurance guy comes along pulls a piece checks size and verifies Monogram and date code again. After each rack is full the rack guy DATE STAMPS and signs a shipping ticket affixes it to the rack does it up and sets it aside. Every few hours the shift foreman comes along checks each rack for various things checks the Monogram and date code and signs the shipping ticket. The quality assurance guy also did this. 
  So that is a lot of Monogram and date code checks. Why?
 For GM it was so we could track quality problems right to the hour they occurred so if we were in a quality sort position we could from the time stamped on the shipping ticket backward and forward through other stamped racks to quarantine the glass for further inspection.
 For safety its a legal requirement for us to have the date code on it also for tracking purposes if there was an accident where someone is suing us because of glass failure (its been tried, but never successful that I know of)
 So yes the date codes are all there for a reason.
So could a March date coded backlite get into a late Feb build ?  Yes it could ! Very unlikely and improbable but it could and has happened.
Normative practice was at midnight of the last day of the month the old date monogram was removed and the next months date was put in and recorded.
 Go back to the 3 week supply statement and how much glass that can be run in a month. If the last "scheduled backlite" run on the furnace was mid feb. and  the next early march. After the mid feb run all leftover monograms would be destroyed and the Lab guy would start making the March ones. Well some unforeseen problem comes up and we have to get glass to GM toot sweet or shut the plant down (not a good thing) Emergency furnace changeover run a couple hundred backlites to keep them going. Oh problem no Feb Coded monograms. Because of all the checks we do as long as the glass is documented on all those reports plus the shift report and a report from our head of quality so it can be tracked back to actual day and hour of run on the furnace it is acceptable and legal.
  Did all this happen in Rossford that last week of February in 1969 ? there is no way of knowing unless a few more show up. All of the above I know because I did most of the jobs on a furnace that cam from Rossford  using all the same procedures that Rossford used.

 Next another fallacy ! We never ever shipped matched sets of date coded glass to GM. Glass is installed at very different areas of a car plant to try and track a set of glass to these areas would be impossible. Anyone with an early first week of the month build date more than likely has glass date coded the previous month, 2nd week you might get one of them dated the previous month. 3rd and 4th week builds probably have all that months coded glass. But a piece can still come from a previous month if it was set aside for repair and then repaired and packed into the next months run or even the month after run !
5  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Got a story of a car you "loved & lost" or sold? And found...years later? Share on: September 04, 2014, 08:10:48 PM
 Here is my story and there is more to it than what is posted. But 31 years from when I sold it in 1983 until I saw it again in 2014 after a year and a half search !

6  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT? on: September 03, 2014, 08:25:15 PM
 Can't find the link to the TRI 5 discussion.   Also talked to our plant Quality guy (and glass guru today) and am emailing the pics to him but some pics of the 55 with with both logos would be a big help. He will forward this to a guy out of Rossford that he says knows all things LOF glass.    Just an observation but the second logo looks painted to me.

7  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT? on: September 01, 2014, 12:21:45 PM
  So I spent some time doing some research. IS IT POSSIBLE for a Shat R Proof windshield to be installed at the factory ?? Along with the 3 Camaros and the 2 55's I  also found a 62 corvette that is supposed to be original. The  55 chevy is very telling as it has both the LOF and Shat R p Proof logos on it.
 Its possible that LOF had an agreement to produce and monogram AGR parts for Shat R Proof.  Although to my knowledge and history at our plant it was never done until recently for Belron. Also recently GM stopped letting us ship  AGR glass with their logo on  them. So we have to remove it and apply our own.
  How would it happen ? IF they had an agreement then during an OEM run parts that don't make OE quality are packed for AGR repair.  Also repairable OEM glass is packed or could be fixed at this time and put into a finished case.
  So you can have five or six part cases sitting around AFTER FINAL INSPECTION . To be repaired OEM glass and AGR logo to be removed and Shat R Proof logo added glass along with a part case of Finished glass. 
  So now you have 7 or 8 part racks sitting around to be fixed repaired and filled. Throw in a shift change or two and it is possible for a Shat R Proof windshield to get to GM and installed in a car.
  THIS IS ONLY POSSIBLE IF LOF SUPPLIED SHAT R PROOF with their windshields for these parts. If not You have an AGR windshield.
   There is one possible guy at work who would have an idea if there was an agreement but unlikely. You would have to find someone from Rossford or Lathrope from way back to find out.
 Hope we are being a little more constructive.

8  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT? on: September 01, 2014, 02:11:22 AM
 If you believe its original put it back in the car by all means.
 I love these discussions. I know mistakes we made ended up and still end up in cars (pretty much all of them  get caught at some point nowadays) Nothing like a Camaro hud windshield getting out with the wrong plastic in it. But Shat R Proof is an Aftermarket supplier. You would have to get documents from GM to prove it ever got any OEM glass from them !
9  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT? on: September 01, 2014, 01:57:22 AM
 And since GM didn't know which state the car was going to all of them got it !
10  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT? on: September 01, 2014, 01:48:06 AM
 I can tell you that in 1973 at the GM car assembly plant in Oshawa Ontario they were still putting them in by hand. Guy on each side with suction cups .My aoto mechanics class was on a tour there and the guide pointed out that the windshields were from the plant in Collingwood where we were from.
  As well as late as 2009 the JEEP LIBERTY had what we called a racetrack on the inboard lite. Two parallel lines around the circumference of the windshield so that the guy putting the urethane on by" hand" didn't go outside the lines !  With the model change in 2009 the Liberty windshield had two small unpainted lines through both inboard and outboard lites near the bottom edge for the now robot to see to install the windshield. The Impala we have made since 2004 has none of these. The Chevy pick up which we have made since 76 still does not have any marks for a robot to identify. The Lexus SUV has identifiers (Cambridge Ontario)  I am pretty sure the 4th  and5th gen Camaros don't have any .Not sure about the 6th we are running it but I have not been over to see it yet.
11  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT? on: September 01, 2014, 12:49:06 AM
oops small mistake DOT codes came in the 70's
12  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT? on: September 01, 2014, 12:47:40 AM
 Well first I would read that report, very informative. But I can tell you that as a 30 year LOF/Pilkington employee there are some small mistakes in it.
Today GM can and do open contracts to other companies for Market tests and we have grabbed a few contracts over the past "8" years they have been doing it. They did not start doing that until this century.  Back in the sixties LOF Rossford Ohio and Lathrope Ca.  had the windshield, backlite and doorlite contracts for all Camaros.   We had all doorlite glass for the Firebird. PPG had the windshield and backlite glass for the Firebird. I think in 69 PPG got some of the Camaro also. All LOF aftermarket glass was stamped LOF and used no other name. I believe PPG had some aftermarket names none of which are Shat R Proof
  As someone who has monogrammed about 4 million pieces of glass back when we still sandblasted them on I can tell you the first example shown is a double struck piece of crap that couldn't have been repaired and in no way comes close to an OEM windshield. The second shows too much wear in the positive as the letters and #'s are filling in. Not OEM quality but ok for AGR. The third shows fade out top to bottom on the blasting, although by 60's standards passable for OEM not great. So I have seen 3 poorly monogrammed pieces of glass, screams AGR to me. But don't take my word for it I only do it for living !   Another detail missing is the LAMINATED part of the stamp.  The Sat r proof should also have a laminated stamp on it required by GM for OEM glass.
  Even if LOF or PPG were on strike during any of that time we are required by GM to increase our inventory dramatically when our contracts come up to cover labor disruptions and either company could probably pick up short term slack on top of that.
  Lastly do you not think aftermarket installers back in the day couldn't put in a windshield as well as the factory ? Every car on a new car lot today visits a local body shop for touch ups that you can't tell are there.
Anything else you need ?


13  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT? on: August 29, 2014, 06:24:02 PM
 All Norwood first gens should have an LOF windshield. It is a legal requirement to  have the AS-1 the M-  and the DOT  as part of the monogram. LA Camaros should have an Lof windshield as well. Its possible for a PPG to have made it into a few also as they had the windshield contract for the Firebird.

 Shat r proof is an agr or aftermarket supplier
14  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Niagara Falls Ontario 69 RS/SS vert current owner on: August 15, 2014, 08:25:20 AM
Back in 77 when I bought the car the outer trim ring on the DS rear taillight was missing. Took two years to find one. How times have changed !
15  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Cowl Tag Codes Sep 68 vs Sep 69 on: July 10, 2014, 06:57:44 PM
 Hmmm and for a rookie  I thought I explained it pretty good ? Back to the drawing board darn.
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