Messages

61

General Discussion / Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?

« on: January 30, 2014, 06:00:02 PM »

Guys the date provided with this service is the official GM Production date, the date is contained in what we call the shipping data record's - but it is the official GM production date, it is not the date the car was shipped, unless of course they shipped it on the production date, I suspect that could happen but probably did not happen often.

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General Discussion / Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?

« on: January 27, 2014, 03:00:49 AM »

Guys Original GM paper does not get redone by GM in a dealer trade, so the window sticker car shipper build sheet did not change. Protect-o-plate was completed by actual selling dealer even if it was dealer traded. Communication between dealers was sparse back in these days so dealer trades were usually close. They did not have locator systems like those that exist today. In a dealer trade today window sticker still shows original dealer car was billed to.

Thanks Roy,
Just curious. In all of your years of being involved with the NCRS, GM dealer documents for the Corvette's, have you ever seen this scenario where the original POP did not match because of a dealer trade?

Yes, in fact I woiuld not expect to if it was a dealer trade, the selling dealer is supposed to complete it.

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General Discussion / Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?

« on: January 26, 2014, 03:39:21 AM »

Guys Original GM paper does not get redone by GM in a dealer trade, so the window sticker car shipper build sheet did not change. Protect-o-plate was completed by actual selling dealer even if it was dealer traded. Communication between dealers was sparse back in these days so dealer trades were usually close. They did not have locator systems like those that exist today. In a dealer trade today window sticker still shows original dealer car was billed to.

64

General Discussion / Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?

« on: January 24, 2014, 01:50:10 AM »

Thanks Roy for fighting the good fight and getting access to this information. I am surprised the NCRS would have to be convinced to do this though. What was their argument for not doing it?

Pretty simple it took a major financial investment, there is always a possibility the pay out will not be sufficient to cover the investment, they are a Corvette club not a Camaro-Chevelle-Nova club, it also took a manpower restructure and addition so it required a business plan review, we have the GM approval and now we are waiting on the IT guru's to get us online.

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General Discussion / Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?

« on: January 23, 2014, 09:18:59 PM »

Roy,
Thanks for posting the details of the service.

You are welcome.

66

General Discussion / Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?

« on: January 23, 2014, 04:08:54 PM »

Roy, I'm assuming this info is on microfiche like the GM of Canada shippers, but did GM give the microfiche sheets to the NCRS or do you have to contact someone at the Herritage Center for the info when you get a request?

Ed

Ed, It gets very complicated and long to explain, yes the information is on microfiche. The problem is it is all Chevrolet production, there is 1926 Chevrolet roadster stuff on one page I looked at.  so we have 22 cars per page on the microfiche. That's 22 Chevrolets not 22 69 Norwood Camaros. imagine now Chevrolet complete production history. we are talking 100,000's pages of microfiche maybe Millions of pages.  We contracted with an outside service to scan these pages and digitize them so we could create a searchable file by VIN. These records ultimately were filtered so that we just have the Camaro, Chevelle, and Nova production plant records. The initial retrieval some three years ago was just the Corvette plant, with that we still got light duty, medium duty trucks, Corvair Greenbriers, and Biscayne station wagons because they were all built in St Louis, I digress. This time through the process we refined the scanning process and just pulled 65-72 Camaro, Chevelle and Nova records. Its a huge undertaking, time consuming and expensive. the problem becomes a damaged microfiche record may not scan well, some pages are missing there will be holes in the records, etc.  the end result is NCRS ends up with Searchable DVD's for year groupings and the groupings are not 1st gen second gen they are when one DVD is full we start a second. so 67-68 Camaro are together and 69 -70- Camaro are together. this is not the same page you see from Canada because when we search a Canadian car all we will have depending on the year is something like zone 21 dealer 000, we know that means Canadian export, if you contact Canada with the vin you will get the stuff you guys are use to seeing from Canada.

The records contain only what I have indicated they contained in previous posts nothing more nothing less, for what will become obvious reasons as we progress into these services  the only thing that will be supplied out of these records in the service is the official production date, GM zone and GM dealer. we then take that information and search the GM dealer directories for the time frame to determine the dealer name, city and state.  

Long explanation to answer your question by saying yes its similar but no its not the same.

67

General Discussion / Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?

« on: January 23, 2014, 03:03:41 PM »

Thanks again Roy. This is a great service.

Charley,

I think once we get our feet on the ground with this service and begin too figure out exactly what we can and cant do with it there are all kinds of possibilities.  I personally appreciate your support in this. It was huge step for the NCRS board to approve this, they are after all a Corvette club and convincing them they owed it to the rest of the Hobbyist to provide the information it was no minor feat.

68

General Discussion / Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?

« on: January 23, 2014, 01:51:20 PM »

so if i order this information will it say whether or not my car was produced as a z28 or SS ? that would be the main reason i would want it. they must have that information available if they know what dealer the car went to and when the car was built.

Short answer No.

69

General Discussion / Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?

« on: January 23, 2014, 01:49:20 PM »

the source for the new Camaro, Nova and Chevelle information is the same source used for the Corvette. the records belong to GM. NCRS has been granted permission to access these records and provide the service for Camaro, Nova and Chevelle. It's that simple.

I know - it's my signature on the NCRS paperwork and unless things change within NCRS I most likely will be doing it for the other documents as well.

Believe me if NCRS had access to anything else it would also be available.

Hi Roy,

Any chance on a discount for this service for CRG members?   

Paul

Paul, NCRS is a not for profit organization, they have non NCRS members join NCRS before they can receive the Corvette Data! Given that bit of information I think they are giving you a discount, if your a Camaro, Chevelle or Nova guy you don't have to join NCRS to get the data. So in effect it is a discount already, the price of this service is controlled by GM.

Seriously, I lobbied NCRS hard to get this stuff released for these Marques, when it became obvious we had it all in the records we found for the Corvette. NCRS had to determine if they could handle the process just for the Corvette, once we got that under control, we went back to GM and said OK let us do the same thing for the other cars.

70

General Discussion / Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?

« on: January 23, 2014, 04:08:57 AM »

the source for the new Camaro, Nova and Chevelle information is the same source used for the Corvette. the records belong to GM. NCRS has been granted permission to access these records and provide the service for Camaro, Nova and Chevelle. It's that simple.

I know - it's my signature on the NCRS paperwork and unless things change within NCRS I most likely will be doing it for the other documents as well.

Believe me if NCRS had access to anything else it would also be available.

71

General Discussion / Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?

« on: January 22, 2014, 09:35:18 PM »

Guys you will get exactly what the above report shows. The Shipping Data Records do contain the wholesale invoice number, order number and indent number. these numbers are not released with this information and will not be provided from this information.  The reason for that will become obvious at some point, but we do know at this point that some plants, some years one or more of those three numbers may be located on your cowl tag, or window sticker, or wholesale invoice, or car shipper, or build sheet, or MSO, etc.  For that reason the numbers will not be released, they would only serve to assist the counterfeiters. Because of the way the three strings were created at original order conception they are unpredictable and unpublished but great tools for ferreting out in some cases bogus items such as build sheets, window stickers, cowl tags, MSO, etc.

I should add for 68 Ragtop - one of these numbers may or may not appear on the cowl tag and it may or may not always be in the body number location, more research is needed before we make a flat statement such as your "BTW the wholesale invoice # and body # may be one in the same"

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General Discussion / Re: NCIB

« on: February 20, 2013, 03:08:26 PM »

Hi Ed,

  If it's free then I can afford it 
Mike

Not trying to hijack this thread but, speaking of for free!

We thought mine might have been a baldwin motion, it came back as curry chevrolet not far from motion. So, they do help in that regard.
Rich

It is my understanding Joel Rosen can tell you if your car was Motion car or not for a slightly more than for free figure.
It is also my understanding that not all Motion cars were Baldwin-Motion, in other words he would convert a car you purchased at another dealership???

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General Discussion / Re: NCIB

« on: February 18, 2013, 05:22:27 AM »

There was a time when your friendly detective, police officer, law enforcement official could access some type of record from NICB. Today I think it requires a case assignment/number and any officer or other found trying to access the stuff without proper authorization faces severe penalties.

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General Discussion / Re: NCIB

« on: February 18, 2013, 03:27:28 AM »

 NCRS has permission to use the GM shipping data records. Those records are the property of GM; it took over five years once the information was located to get GM permission to use it. The associated expense for turning the microfiche into a searchable file was absorbable by NCRS only because of their structure and size. Just the microfiche does not provide the end answer NCRS also needed access to the GM dealer directories which was another stumbling block as they are often incomplete due to poor maintenance and file retention, dealer zones and numbers changed often with simple management change so there are multiple directories for multiple years.    John Z can probably expalin the dealer directory issue better than I, bottom line its an extrapolation from two different sources that reasults in the information supplied by NCRS to Corvette owners even those records have holes and are missing before 1962 and afeter 1975.

75

General Discussion / Re: I'm impressed - new member

« on: November 02, 2012, 02:27:46 AM »

The POP picture and trim tag pictures came from when it was on ebay a couple of years ago.
Looking at the tag pic shows a very sharp paint line above the tag. That would indicate that it was repainted by 2010.

Thanks!

A repaint would really surprise me the paint was pretty nice on the car, are you talking about the parting line where the black out is done?  If the car was componded and buffed in that area would it sharpen the line?  Maybe you see something I can't.  I certtainly do not see anything in the photo that looks like a tape line, I sold that car I'm going to guess in 05 or 06, do not have a clue where it is, or what has happened to it since I sold it, the guy who got it from me sold it within a year.

Thank You,

Roy