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256  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: 1968 Z/28 Block - Trans - Rear Numbers... Original Stamps? on: April 20, 2014, 10:54:54 AM
Yes, who knows. I see that last digit is very light. Looks like a "9" ? How can you hit them all super deep and then have one that barely shows. What the hell!!  Huh Huh   I need a few more entries here, and some more explaining before I tell my buddy weather or not to pull the trigger on this car... Danny

Nature of a gang stamp. Individual stamp shanks tend to deform over repeated use, plus the holder itself allows some movement of the individual stamps - they are usually held in place with a key or wire, and will shift slightly that allows some irregularity in the finished stamp. I'm pretty convinced the stamping looks authentic, characters look good, alignment is within the range of normality in my estimation; the only question mark I have is the suggestion of decking. It could very well be that if the rest of the block surface has been milled, then the shop that decked it did the right thing and kept away from the pad stamping. My opinion -

Regards -
257  Orphans - documentation or VIN-stamped drivetrains - in search of the original cars / 1968 - Orphans / 18N448650 engine block on: April 19, 2014, 01:53:25 PM
Anyone seen 18N448650 ? In the database ? I have your original block on hand -
258  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: 1968 Z/28 Block - Trans - Rear Numbers... Original Stamps? on: April 19, 2014, 01:45:53 PM
I can't dispute the originality of the numbers, but the marking to the left of the VIN looks less like reflections, and more like feed lines from a deck milling pass. Most decking is done with a milling cutter, not a Blanchard grinder, so the carbide inserts or brazed cartridges leave a feed line (similar to the feed lines you see on distributors after they are turned). I get the suggestion that the decking continued over the numbers, but since it has been stoned or abraded the feed lines are either extremely light, or were worked off.

The VIN numbers are uneven, and cocked. I checked out one of my original blocks, never decked, and the VIN stamp on the pad is very even, and uniformly light end to end. It also nearly gets into the build stamp on the block. Mine are very light compared to the pics above, which doesn't really point to anything with the exception of hand stamping with a gang stamp, which is not always consistent person to person, or strike to strike. I'm pretty positive the build stamp on the pic is original - same font (the "6" in particular) as my known original.

Broach marks are end to end, as the block was stood up and broached parallel to the crank bore. Broaching usually leaves a light straight line, end to end on the deck, with no angular marks. Angles are generally the result of hand scraping or abrasives (sanding, wire brushing).  

Just my opinion -


259  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: 1968 Z/28 Block - Trans - Rear Numbers... Original Stamps? on: April 19, 2014, 09:26:17 AM
I'd like to see the originals. The engine pad has the appearance of being decked left of the VIN (see the outline in green), but unlike our discussion previously about restamping vs. decking originals, the VIN stamped edges are clean and sharp, suggesting the decking (or sanding/grinding) was done after the stamping, or possibly (if it was decked), the shop stayed off of the stamped area. Build date stamp and suffix looks correct, trans looks good, as does the axle.

The entire area has been sanded on the block - cleaning ? Removing feed lines ? Difficult to tell without seeing the balance of the deck surface.
260  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: need the experts help with stamp pad on: April 16, 2014, 08:23:46 PM
  I can't comment on the correctness of this stamping but I wanted to say you can have a block decked and still retain the stampings providing the decking process doesn't take too much off vs. the depth of the stamp.Most original stampings will have a very-very slight ridge along the characters edge from the metal displacement of the imprint force. Any decking, providing it doesn't take the stamping totally off, will usually even out the slightly raised edge (as this photo looks) depending on the deck cut depth.


Look closely at the edges of the stamp, and you get the suggestion the feed lines actually roll downward into the lines of the stamp - to me, that indicates the stamping happened after the decking took place. The stamps should be sharp faced, which tends to not deform the material as much as standard character stamps do. Still, not saying this is definitively the case here, it only suggests it. If the block was decked only a few thousands, the stampings might survive intact, but in most cases it will lighten it up considerably (if not completely lift it).
261  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: A Craigslist 69 Z?? on: April 14, 2014, 08:40:51 PM
Owner must have gone phishing - too bad.

Ads like this seem to happen with increasing regularity. Craig's List is rife with them.
262  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Carb date codes on 68 04D Z build on: April 14, 2014, 08:25:43 PM

How about a Lemans Blue paint job to cover up the H.O. ?

Sorry - I couldn't resist -

263  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: need the experts help with stamp pad on: April 14, 2014, 08:23:20 PM
One thing that sticks out is the fact the block has been decked - the lines you see running across the pad are feed lines from the milling cutter's carbide inserts. Pretty distinctive, they differ from the factory decking in that the lines from the factory broaching process run the length of the block, not sideways across the deck. They are also more indistinct than milling lines.

If it's a restamp (which it appears to be), the stamp is pretty decent. The stamp indentations are usually pretty shallow, so a .010 - .015" pass usually removes them. It could be original, but it would have had to have been stamped pretty deep to remain that visible -

My opinion - other agree or dissent ?
264  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Niagara Falls Ontario 69 RS/SS vert current owner on: April 13, 2014, 07:40:53 PM
Really? I know of more than 10.....
Cut him some slack, Bullitt does not want to acknowledge the H.O. re-unitings,lol.
I remember the car in Texas with the L78 ,  I think you put him in touch with the original car Kurt?! Then there is a fellow CRGer that has a L78 69 block that the original car's owner was not interested in obtaining.

I still haven't figured that deal out - evidently never will.

Regards -
265  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: Treating inside of rocker rails & the snow is gone! on: April 11, 2014, 05:33:41 PM
And 84 deg. F here Sunday -

Try rigging up a tube to vacuum the interior out before you treat. Dang mice are ferocious seed hoarders -

266  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: This is a good looking car! on: April 09, 2014, 08:04:56 AM
What sticks out to me, the fact that people don't understand that guys like us watch and record these things, or have good enough memories to catalog cars like this that pop up for sale periodically. Unless they start altering VIN numbers, we'll continue to catch 'em. Caveat emptor (or something similar, if I remember high school Latin correctly).

Regards - 
267  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: A Craigslist 69 Z?? on: April 08, 2014, 09:45:46 PM
Almost too good looking to be true - definitely a nice 10 footer, I wish the close up pics were there. If it's a genuine X33, not a bad price to be sure.

Never know until you look, but it sounds like the seller doesn't want to share any details. If somebody is close, and wanting a Z, you might want to check this one out.

Regards -
268  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: clips and seal for RH side inner fender brace on: April 07, 2014, 09:38:27 PM
Looks like mine, only cleaner -

It does remind me of phosphate - any sign of a stamp ? I need to see if mine is marked.

Regards -
269  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Another 1969 Z/28 "Barn Find" on: April 06, 2014, 09:21:20 PM
Excerpts from the ad on eBay - possible explanation about the TT/paint code mismatch:

"Q:  On paint condition, page 1, your appraiser says original color is Tuxcedo Black with White Stripes. And why does the cowl tag rivets, look like there filled with something ? Apr-06-14
A:   The car is Cortez silver and anything you see on the trim tag is exactly how it left the factory. It is untouched and original. Jerry did physical inspections on two cars that day belonging to the same previous owner and although the paper work also list Cortez silver with black stripes he made a typo because the other car is a factory black copo 427. Even Jerry m. (Wrote the camaro fact book) is human. We also just noticed it and I'm sure he would correct it. I have already left another q/a to this detail attached to auction site but will attach this one as well to clarify. Thanks for your interest.

Makes sense, but Jerry's assessment would clear things up -

270  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: clips and seal for RH side inner fender brace on: April 06, 2014, 08:54:34 PM
I dug up the pics of mine - if you look at the inner fold of the clip you can see that the (protected) area is simialr to dark grey phosphate, a mildly rough finish, defintely not blued or shiny in any way. I haven't cleaned it, it's still the same finish as when I took it off the Z in 1980, stored since. I can't speak for all of the clips out there, just my personal sample (and observation), so it's not a large sample size to correlate. Maybe more than one vendor ? Can't say -
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