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166  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 69 Z/11 L78 Pace Car "Unrestored survivor" on: April 29, 2014, 10:57:14 PM
Roy,

X2 -

What happens so many years/owners/machine shops ago is never easy to understand or explain. I've been building drivetrains for a pretty good while, and I've experienced good and less than reputable machine shops. I sold a verified, documented LS5 SS '70 Chevelle a couple of years back, that had the original drivetrain still on board, with the engine completely rebuilt by a reputable shop in B'ham, AL - sure enough, they decked the block and wiped the numbers, in 1983. I understand the then-owner was furious, and it's probably why I was able to buy a 56K mile beautiful car in 1992 for next to nothing (I found the build sheet on it 19 years after purchase, documenting the car). The shop that decked it blueprinted the motor, but apparently disregarded the engine stamp in preference to building a good engine. Durned thing still runs like a scalded dog -

Point being, circumstance outweighs fact some of the time - casting date coding is unusually early (my L78 original block is one month prior in casting to the build date), I have another L78 VIN coded block the same way, but that sample size does not define the range of dates by itself.

That's why I enjoy, and hopefully everyone else that posts here, the CRG. Ain't it fun ?

Regards -
167  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 69 Z/11 L78 Pace Car "Unrestored survivor" on: April 27, 2014, 11:45:05 PM
Bill Ohio wrote:
"Vin by the filter are usually very hard to read"

Yes, they are, and that one was very legible, for whatever reason?   

But there IS a lot of like about that car (besides the price - although it might be worth it?); Most of the car *looks* original and worn, but ...
1) it's hard to believe an orange interior on a convertible being in that good a shape after 45 years and 92K miles..? 
2) Some folks buy a high performance car (which the 386/375 certainly is), and might 'deck' the block and/or heads to increase the compression a little even when brand new?
If they did that when new in '69, probably the 'stampings' on the block didn't mean very much...

Regardless, I'd love to see the car for a personal inspection.. Smiley

The ad reads "200 miles" since rebuild, although I guess it's possible for someone to have decked it early (why someone would do that to a 11.0:1 big block ?). I guess I need to lighten up and be objective here - anything is possible in this hobby: I don't mean to sound like the devil's advocate in any respect -

Regards -
168  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 69 Z/11 L78 Pace Car "Unrestored survivor" on: April 27, 2014, 11:39:11 PM
Why would you deck a standard bore block ? If the bores were in that good of shape, the deck surface should be pretty flat. Hard to imagine a 92,000 mile block that didn't require some overbore, considering yesterday's materials. Could be wrong, but normally one might require the other. That early a casting for a May car ? One month, maybe two, but 9 is unlikely.

Regards -

Machine shops, what are they in the business of doing? Why, machining, of course!! I never and mean NEVER had an engine where the shop did not recommend it all. Regardless if I thought it needed boring or whatever after checking with my own guages/mics, the shop wanted to do everything to the engine. Two reasons: They want to insure, as much as possible, the engine lives, protecting their reputation. 2, That (machining) is their business, so of course they will sell what work they can. The material and casting/machining variances from that era, as pointed out, almost if not always guarantee boring, align boring with relatively low miles. I only insisted that the decking was not to be done to protect the numbers after some discussion with shop owner.

The shops I have dealt with locally usually ask what I need done to the blocks I have built over the years - true, they might recommend procedures (like head surfacing), but will check first before they machine any features I did not authorize them to do. Seasoned blocks that have run for a significant period of time have the added benefit of proving things like crank bore alignment, core shift in the cylinder bores, lifter bore wear; heads have their own problems like warpage, and cracking. I've seen more head problems than block problems with deck surfaces.

Shops that force align boring/honing scare me - I hate to risk loose timing chains, especially new ones. If there were no apparent bearing difficulties, with significant mileage, I just check clearances on assembly. Sure, shops can align bore without removing too much from the block side, but I don't like to take a chance on having an inexperienced person.

Concerning this L78 block - it just appears strange to me that the block was decked and not bored after 92K miles. If the wear was concentrated on the pistons and rings, there would still be enough wear for a good ring land, plus some eccentricity to the bores. If the shop was a "pusher", seems like that the suggestion to bore the block would have been there. (Witness the L78 block I have, bored .060, never decked).

As always, just my opinion and suspicions -

Regards,
Steve
169  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 69 Z/11 L78 Pace Car "Unrestored survivor" on: April 27, 2014, 05:50:06 PM
Why would you deck a standard bore block ? If the bores were in that good of shape, the deck surface should be pretty flat. Hard to imagine a 92,000 mile block that didn't require some overbore, considering yesterday's materials. Could be wrong, but normally one might require the other. That early a casting for a May car ? One month, maybe two, but 9 is unlikely.

Regards -
170  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Bad Luck is Better Than No Luck; Right? on: April 26, 2014, 10:19:47 PM
Looks like the pushrods were clearanced for more oil delivery, eh ?

Hate you had to do that, after working so long to finish it up. At least the firewall and long block look like they parted cleanly - no marks -

Guess the pushrod ends are in the pan - had to come out anyway you look at it.

Regards -
 
171  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / 68 low fuel warning on: April 26, 2014, 10:08:28 PM
I think this has probably been answered 300 times, but I couldn't locate an exact answer when I searched. I disassembled my 68 Z console tonight, and found the gauge wiring to be completely intact, including the low fuel warning module. My questions - were all D55 gauge cars equipped with the low fuel module ? Or optional ? Is the indicator light on the dash panel or gauge package ? I was pleased to find everything there, and hooked, although I was bummed to find the console itself looks like the aftermath of the Siege at Leningrad. Everything that can be broken is broken, with the (thankful) exception of the gauge package.

Now all I have to do is restore it - the work never ends. 
172  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: vin numbers on: April 23, 2014, 09:04:35 PM
Heater core box/cover ? Pic of that (if it's an original) would point at small or big block depending on where the hose outlets are located -

I agree with the color combo - Le Mans is my favorite 68/9 color (for all you H.O. gurus !)

Regards -
173  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: engine assembly on: April 23, 2014, 08:54:05 PM
'68 engine assembly is about as straightforward as you can get - with the exception of the windage tray, it assembles just like any other early small block when utilizing the correct parts. Speaking of parts, you can use esteemed CGR members Alan Colvin's book Chevrolet by the Numbers, and Jerry MacNeish's 1967-68 Defiinitive Facts books and gorge yourself on part numbers. Carb to pan, intake to exhaust, everything you need to source and search for are spelled out in good fashion. Part numbers and visual references abound.

No, I'm not a publisher, nor do I get royalties from either, but I have read and reread these and others until I fell I have a pretty good grasp of what's needed to put one together as original. I have built SB Chevys since age 16 (44 years), and so I did my latest, '68 MO, waiting to be painted, topped off and installed. Top to bottom, you can still put one of these together, correctly, on a budget.
174  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: vin numbers on: April 21, 2014, 08:51:23 PM
Since the '68's are so hard to document (unlike the 7's and 9's, no cowl tag coded info to go by), look at rear end numbers (passenger side axle tube, front side), 10 or 12 bolt, number of leaf springs, auto or std. trans, size and number of gas lines, presence or absence of right side tailpipe mounting bracket in the rear wheel opening. Barring original paperwork or documentation, there is no cut and dried (or exact) way to pinpoint what this car is, or was.

Who knows, maybe it's a Yenko, or a Nickey, or a Dana, or a Baldwin Motion ? That's the fun of it, finding and researching. Maybe it will be one of the really rare ones. In any case, good luck and good hunting. Let us know what you find out, or discover. Most all of us will be glad to try and sort it out.

Regards - 
175  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Bad Luck is Better Than No Luck; Right? on: April 21, 2014, 08:30:12 PM
Makes total sense. Easy thing to confuse BB pistons and reliefs - one version even uses two different part numbers, one for each side of the block (I found this during a search for the L78 proper piston part numbers). Betcha the builder never checked the valve to piston clearance during the build - you're probably lucky it didn't mangle it worse. Sounds like a cam change would be in the works -

Hate it happened, but glad it did it now rather than strand you somewhere, or grenade it -

176  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Bad Luck is Better Than No Luck; Right? on: April 21, 2014, 04:52:06 PM
Better than sitting in a garage for 34 years - like one I know of -
177  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Rochester Quad Verify? on: April 21, 2014, 04:48:56 PM
Good one to have - 7037213 is for 327/275 hp , standard trans, A.I.R, also for 350/295 hp, standard trans, A.I.R. A more common version is probably the 7027213, same engine power combinations, S/T, W/O A.I.R.

2726 is Julian date for the 272nd day of '66, you are correct -

Regards,
Steve
178  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Bad Luck is Better Than No Luck; Right? on: April 21, 2014, 04:36:40 PM
Fair enough - let us know. Hate to hear you had a momentary setback - I'm anxious to see this one on the road (as I know you are).
179  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Bad Luck is Better Than No Luck; Right? on: April 21, 2014, 04:28:25 PM
The remark earlier about the weak spring installation might be a good crosscheck to see just how much lift you can get away with. Piston at TDC, depress the valve until it makes contact, and measure. What ratio are the rockers ? Cam could be stout enough (and I remember the idle) to play hell with the pushrods if the valves come anywhere close to the pistons.

At least it's apparently just pushrods - I've seen BB internals when you hydraulic a piston - rods look like corkscrews, or grenade through the motor.

Regards -  
180  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Pic posting problems ? on: April 21, 2014, 04:10:25 PM
Figured it out - I used my iPhone, a higher resolution camera. I almost always use my older camera, which is easy to get under the 200kb, 4 per post max. Sorry to squawk before I thought better about it -

Regards -
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