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Messages - BULLITT65

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General Discussion / Re: A First Generation Camaro LEGACY ?
« on: January 16, 2018, 06:05:34 PM »
GW writes , ...If you contract with someone to do a service for you, providing acess to/information from something you own, ownership of that information does NOT pass to the service provider.   Without requesting/receiving the right to do so.... Inless your initials are HRC.

General Discussion / Re: A First Generation Camaro LEGACY ?
« on: January 16, 2018, 05:54:40 PM »
Darrell can you expand on what you know about Jerry's reports? What point would there be in archiving the reports, if none of the contents could be divulged?

BTW- we have our own CRG and MRG (Mustang research group), in our household, my kids know more about first Gen Camaros and Mustangs than most of the guys I run into who "used to own one". While in the garage this past weekend, my son wanted a breakdown of X77 vs. X33 vs. RS (concerning a 69Z) , so naturally I busted out a huge piece of cardboard and propped it up and busted out a piece of chalk, and Educated him. He followed that up with a Q & A session. It was priceless, I am not sure who enjoyed it more. It is fun to not even have to get on a forum, or seek out someone to talk cars with, when he is around. Sometimes I just have to wait until he is done playing nerf guns, or finishing his homework to do so...  ;D

General Discussion / Re: A First Generation Camaro LEGACY ?
« on: January 16, 2018, 05:45:55 AM »
Good point. So what your saying is all of Jerry's inspections if not kept by the seller, once they disappear are gone forever.

Well I have a leg up on the 08 (late 69 ) Camaros, It would be nice to get a few other guys to head up other months of the year, to keep this going. 

General Discussion / Re: A First Generation Camaro LEGACY ?
« on: January 15, 2018, 04:43:18 PM »
I agree Doug, thats why I thought for example: if a potential buyer submitted a vin to say Kurt, and he had a list of Vin numbers that Jerry has inspected, he could then let the potential buyer know it is on file with Jerry, and possibly pay for a copy of that old report? 
Now maybe Jerry is unable to release the report, or maybe he destroys them after a number of years?
But, if he can get permission, or if the person who paid for the report isn't in the picture, maybe he could come up with a 2nd tier fee schedule for old reports?
So if he charges $800 for a new report, maybe he charges $200 for a copy of an old report? (maybe prorated based on age)

This is all speculation, but there would be a way for him to protect his business financially.

I am just not sure about who owns the info in those reports and their rights to keep it private.

General Discussion / Re: A First Generation Camaro LEGACY ?
« on: January 15, 2018, 07:34:08 AM »
So then how would you would imagine a ideal registry at this point with your knowledge of the CRG data base, and a smaller sample of cars from Jerry and Steve?
We can all continue to funnel potential buyers through the CRG, but you are just one guy. Just like Jerry is one guy.
If you have something personal come up, and say you are out attending to it for 2 weeks, That data on 20,000 cars is pretty much locked up, until you get back then right?
I guess I am somewhat wondering where you see this going as time marches on?  Do you envision what you do evolving into more or a grander scale?

General Discussion / Re: A First Generation Camaro LEGACY ?
« on: January 15, 2018, 04:03:48 AM »
Would it be a good idea to have a collective data base of all three? Kurt if you had the final say, how would you envision the best way to compile all the data?
Would you want it all under the CRG roof? Or is even that to monumental? (I am not sure how many cars Jerry has inspected/documented)
Would Jerry's data be to large, to take on merging it with Your CRG data (not sure if all of Jerry's data is on a computer)

(Be nice to hear from Steve S. And his take on this as well)

I have seen a number of stamps where it looks like the letters and numbers were stamped individually. It is more the exception to the rule. Most of them the dates are in line, and the Axle code stamped separate and deeper.

here is a thread with a decent amount of pics of original rear ends:

Once you look at them all you will see the variation. ;)

General Discussion / Re: A First Generation Camaro LEGACY ?
« on: January 14, 2018, 05:01:30 AM »
Tim those are good suggestions, about a cars history and if has had a certified inspection, or if it was "uncertified" in the history of the car would also be good to know.
 I guess my question with the CRG is if a potential buyer asks about a car that has been inspected by Jerry, and IFKurt happens to see the post, is the CRG (Kurt) privy to Jerry's data base?

I have seen cars mentioned in the past, where Kurt says he doesn't have any info on the car. Does that mean it hasn't been seen by Jerry either?

Also for the MCACN first gen Camaros that get inspected, has this data been combined with CRG data, or are these also separate?

General Discussion / Re: A First Generation Camaro LEGACY ?
« on: January 13, 2018, 08:17:50 PM »
I agree. I am not sure how much info they would let on that they would be able to provide. But Ideally getting major players that have gobs of information dating back a ways would really make a difference in the percentage of information, and the depth of the info.

General Discussion / Re: A First Generation Camaro LEGACY ?
« on: January 13, 2018, 07:45:30 PM »
Good point Steve. I think half of it is having the service/registry, but the word has to get out there, so guys like your friend could have had a go to source. To bad you didn't live closer or get the opportunity to inspect the car with him prior to purchase, he is one of many I am afraid.
I think the books that the Shelby registry puts out, may work for them and a smaller number of cars. But still thats 3 volumes at 1200 pages a book?

While Cyber security is definitely in the headlines these days, with even credit bureaus getting hacked, I think the way to go is having a electronic data base. I think paying a fee to get all the known history on a Vin number, (maybe even how many owners, when it was restored/or painted) would give people a good heads up prior to purchase hopefully. I think the best people to provide the initial info is the current owners. We have all taken a big interest in trying to learn the history of our cars, past owners and such.

Now last year I got the idea to start collecting data on Late August of 69 Camaros. I have a late 08C car and there were some different transitions during the month. So I put together a spread sheet, for any kind of numbers I could find on my red car. I then made contact with others, and got as much info as i could on there cars. Right now I have 17 late August cars, which is not many when you consider how many were produced, but guys were willing to share the info, which was great, and has produced some interesting info.
I have just started collecting info on early 69 Camaros, since I purchased my early 10B L.A. car. 
So for instance if Gary took on October/ November of late 69, and we started having 1 guy responsible for each time frame, it might make it do-able.
I know some guys have already been collecting data on specific models, I know Cook has a 68 BB spread sheet going.
I also think Len has info pertaining to July Camaros of 69.
So there is some gathering of info that has already taken place, spreading the work out, makes it less monumental.
I think it would just be a matter of putting all the info together, where we could access it when needed.

General Discussion / Re: 1969 space saver spare hook mount location?
« on: January 13, 2018, 05:50:34 AM »
Deck lid looks awesome!!!

Your car is now one of kind in my book. A beautiful Garnet Red SS with no spoilers. Spot a pic of your interior with that cool looking tachometer for us.

(BTW, I gotta say how nice that Red looks ... 8) )

I miss my red 69

General Discussion / Re: A First Generation Camaro LEGACY ?
« on: January 13, 2018, 05:42:46 AM »
This effort needed to start decades ago, the gennie is out of the bottle (clones) and can never be contained.

I don't disagree that the effort needed to start decades ago, BUT I think our corner of the hobby could still benefit from putting forth the effort. Wouldn't it be great if one day a guy who had one of these fakes, decided to turn it back to a plain jane car?
I think as Gary pointed out, even the guys who had the idea early on to put together a registry, did not curb all of the copy cats out there. BUT at least there is a go to source to verify a car.

I appreciate your input Jim, Doug (and Gary). Even though this topic only has 4 members, it has been viewed by many.
Maybe a good poll question would be: Would you volunteer your information on your car to build such a data base?
I am open to suggestions though. :)

General Discussion / Re: A First Generation Camaro LEGACY ?
« on: January 12, 2018, 09:00:33 AM »
your comment about the lawn mower made me laugh.  ;D Well the thought struck me, when Steve replied on the other thread that there are still 40,000 69 Z's still parading around out there. Many of us post about these cars, but chances are slim a potential buyer will see our comments. (sometimes it occurs). I just thought you know Kurt has many (MANY) files and pics of cars and stamps, but unless one of us posts about it, and Kurt takes time out to look it up in his data base, there are many that stay under our radar. Kurt is just one guy, and I assume has a life outside of The CRG.

Yes it is a monumental task, but if it was taken on, I think one of the biggest hurdles would be guys just submitting info on their own cars. Next would be the co-operation of Jerry, Steve,  Kurt or the CRG to contribute all the cars they have data on. This may be the larger sticking point. 1 you have money involved since I assume these inspections are jerry's bread and butter, and I could understandably see how he would want to safe guard his end of it, legally and protecting the value of the service he provides. I would assume Steve keeps good records as well. Kurt tends to also keep much of the information close to the vest, in an attempt to prevent any further deception, I would guess.

It may be pie in the sky, I am just one guy, but the mission seems worthy, and I know many of wish we could do something to turn the tide.

I really liked the story of Cooks first Camaro that got t-boned and he put back together. I just imagined that car trading hands a few times, and being marketed as a rare original BB car. Cook never intended that, but once you sell a car who knows what guys will do to squeeze more money out of them.

and then some...
So while I am not a Pontiac GTO buff ( I do like them though), I wonder how many fakers are detoured by the PHS?
I think part of clamping down on these guys making more rare cars out of plain jane cars, would be to spread the word and promote this service. The guys that clone cars, would end up having harder time. The dealers who pass these cars along (some innocently, some not) could check a CAR FOX type of service on a first gen camaro, and know if it had a clean bill of health, or if they were getting damaged goods. I bet if the news spread and could be verified in a data base, many dealers wouldn't even bother with selling a car that couldn't be verified, and would want to be advertise that their car is verified, or post a copy of the report, like CAR FOX, to show they are upfront with the info of the car. In a sense this may fill the void that many have voiced about jerry's reports possibly?
(I am thinking a report that would be in conjunction with a jerry inspection, or a MCACN inspection)
Ex 1968 SS BB NOM motor car
Jerry documents this in his report. So while jerry's report is good at the time it is done, what happens in 10 years when the guy wants to sell and thinks - I will get a restamp motor, provide the certificate from Jerry and ditch the rest of the report. Lets say he sells it to a friend, and then that guy sells it after a few years and has no idea of the restamp, and presents it as numbers matching?
Well not so fast if this cars info was in the network, it would show how long ago Jerry did the report. It could give an additional option to purchase Jerry's  original notes on the car. to verify what he saw 10 years ago. There are many scenarios where it seems this type of service would be useful. (I think)

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