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103820 Posts in 12192 Topics by 4703 Members
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61  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Water Pumps 3782608 and 3782609 casting dates?? on: June 20, 2014, 02:40:17 PM
So V1207MU would use ton 308 with date code maybe around L?6
? . Sound about right john?

That's a Flint engine, so it needs a Saginaw-cast water pump, late November to very early December.
62  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Water Pumps 3782608 and 3782609 casting dates?? on: June 19, 2014, 11:27:59 AM
My question is about which is correct and is there a preference as to sag or ton as well as date codes?

For Z/28's, they have to be Saginaw castings; for everything else, the block and water pump have to be from the same foundry source (the engine plants machined/manufactured the water pumps from raw castings).
63  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: A.I.R Smog Diverter valve on: June 17, 2014, 09:21:30 AM

Contact Bill Hodel @ 330-833-0871.

Yup - Bill Hodel is "da man" for A.I.R. systems and components.  :-)
64  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: Restoration help on: June 16, 2014, 11:06:56 AM

So I have a question, did all SS cars come with a front and rear spoiler?

Nope. Spoilers were an option (RPO D80).
65  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 67 N33 Tilt Column 7803779 on: June 14, 2014, 09:53:02 AM
Do not understand what 67 AIM N33 A1 revision 9 is implying (usage revised).

Prior to the item #9 revision, the usage description on the originally-released sheet for that part number was different (and incorrect), and the revision corrected it.
66  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: What's it worth, untouched Cortez silver 69 RS Z on: June 13, 2014, 10:25:07 AM
The Z/28 emblem would override the R/S emblem. Chevy wouldn't put two emblems on the car. What would they do on the rear body panel?
We CRGers know how it is supposed to be, but what about the guys building them back then. This may have been the first Z or, at least, Z/RS built in 69! Maybe there was some confusion or no clarity at the start of production and it got both emblems. Is that possible? Who knows if that is even the original grille. I am just throwing out an idea that perhaps early in production, some anomalies may have occured until assemblies were clarified by supervision. I could see how it could be possible to leave the plant with both emblems myself. Others have a thought? JohnZ? Ed?

Anything is possible, but two emblems on the grille would stick out like a sore thumb and probably wouldn't make it out of the plant. There were only two possible rear panel emblems - the Bowtie, and the Z/28, both of which had the same pre-pierced pin/hole pattern.
67  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Maintenance / Re: intake on: June 11, 2014, 09:50:12 AM
Great article John.  I have Teflon sealant I used for the head bolts, is that OK?

There are a number of products that work on the head bolts - I'm old-school, and prefer non-hardening Permatex #2. Others prefer ARP thread sealant, etc.
68  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Need help/picture to correct my 69 Z28 write up from Jerry MacNeish. on: June 11, 2014, 09:38:09 AM
How did that process differ at Van Nuys John?

Van Nuys had converted from Fisher/Chevrolet to GMAD the previous year, and had consolidated the Paint Shop (eliminated the Chevy paint shop); the front sheet metal previously painted separately by Chevrolet was now mounted on conveyor bucks about five feet ahead of the body shell. The black rocker and fender areas were masked and sprayed at the same time, but it was many hours later before the fender was installed on the body.
69  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Stripe delete on: June 11, 2014, 09:27:31 AM
So in making sure I have taken all this in and understood properly....the only thing common from start to finish on one car that each dept see is the broadcast sheet. Correct? Fisher works off this as well as GM? So to really know for sure
About deletes such as nose stripes it would be on the broadcast sheet.
Say a z stripe delete might show up on cowl because that would effect what fisher had to do, but nose delete may not because it doesn't concern them?

The Broadcast copy was only seen by Chevrolet - it didn't exist until after the body was delivered by Fisher Body; Fisher had their own internal version, called the UOIT.

Nose stripes didn't affect Fisher, so they weren't on the cowl tag; Z/28 stripes DID affect Fisher.
70  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Maintenance / Re: intake on: June 10, 2014, 10:23:54 AM
You may find this article useful:
71  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Need help/picture to correct my 69 Z28 write up from Jerry MacNeish. on: June 10, 2014, 10:10:49 AM
Remember that the rocker panel was sprayed black in the Fisher Body main Paint Shop, when the body was just a shell, prior to entering the Fisher Body Trim Shop. The matching black on the bottom of the front fender was sprayed in the Chevrolet front sheet metal Paint Shop on their side of the plant, hours before the fender was installed on the car.
72  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Stripe delete on: June 10, 2014, 09:52:54 AM
I know the conventional thinking is that the trim tag was only for Fisher body assembly but maybe there was a reason to have items on the trim tag that were not only for Fisher but also needed for scheduling the main line.
In the example of the 68 dash no paint code for nose stripe delete cars ........
Fisher did not put on the nose stripe but maybe the trim tag still needed to show a stripe delete Camaro.

A possible reason would be for some of the "scheduling rules" JohnZ  mentions in the research report on the assembly process.

If the special paint and other special order cars need more time or special tracking to meet special parts, process, or something else, that info would need to be considered when they were put into sequence. For example they may have needed to be sequenced together in some cases for assembly efficiency or paint efficiency but in other cases may have needed to be separated because of higher work station cycle/dwell times.

Even though Fisher would not have to know what nose stripe was used or not used, the trim tag may still needed to have the build order info on it for the scheduling.

here are quotes from JohnZ's report on assembly that I am referencing .......

"Scheduling:  There were usually six lines in the schedule bank - one for RS, one for A/C, one for SS and Z/28, and three for high-volume standard cars, so cars could be scheduled without having situations like three A/C's in a row, three consoles in a row, three RS's in a row, etc., as these had higher work content vs. the standard cars and scheduling two or three of them in a row would over-cycle certain line operations. "

 "Releasing:  When the clerk at the end of the body bank selected the next body based on the scheduling "rules" and released it from its line into the main conveyor to the Trim Line, the computer released the "Broadcast" file with the next sequence number, and it was sent to many teletype printers throughout the plant where subassemblies were built and sequenced for delivery to the Main Line to meet up with that particular car. The same computer program also generated the end-of-line paperwork for that car - the price sticker, car shipper, and other internal documents. "

The point not to be missed here is that there were TWO separate organizations doing production scheduling, with two totally different sets of priorities. Chevrolet dictated to Fisher Body which bodies they wanted each day, and Fisher Body had to schedule those units in a manner that best fit their system and scheduling priorities, most of which didn't affect Chevrolet operations.

Once Chevrolet received the bodies from Fisher, the Chevrolet scheduling rules and priorities took over, and that process was managed by the Body Bank operators, releasing units into the Chevrolet assembly system based on proper labor line balance and option workload distribution. Chevrolet didn't need anything from Fisher to understand what each unit required - they already had the dealer order with all the specs for each car, which Chevrolet transmitted to Fisher Body weeks before the body was scheduled to be built.

Each Fisher plant put whatever they wanted to on the cowl tag based on how they managed their own scheduling process, and nobody on the Chevrolet side of the plant cared what was on the tag nor did they ever even look at it - the only item on the cowl tag Chevrolet cared about was the Body Number, which the clerk wrote down at the entry to the Body Bank; that number was the direct link to that car's Chevrolet dealer order, and generated the Chevrolet Body and Chassis Broadcast Copies when the body was released from the bank.
73  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Package Tray Paint on: June 08, 2014, 12:50:36 PM
Related to this thread, thought I'd post two pics of my glovebox door, which I BELIEVE is unmolested.  Hope it helps someone with the suede discussion, which is a new finish name to me.  I'm not a paint guy, but will be bringing this door to my painter to match for the dashboard - which I've always known to be a smooth finish, a sort of semi dull, semi-gloss smooth black finish.  I have no proof this hasn't been repainted, but since I appear to have the original tire PSI sticker, I think it's original paint.  Hoping I can salvage the sticker, although I'm concerned about blue/green tape damaging it...maybe it's not such a big deal but it is the only original factory applied sticker and I'd prefer to keep it (assumption by its appearance and the fact it's in the glovebox where it's protected).

The glove box door isn't part of the "suede" finish discussion. The glove box door was a Chevrolet part, and was flow-coated in black primer, baked, and then painted interior lacquer color and baked again prior to installation to the previously Fisher Body-painted steel instrument panel, which was a frequent color-match problem.
74  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 1969 Front Spoiler to Lower Valance Bolts on: June 02, 2014, 09:42:47 AM
The 1969 AIM specifies the spoiler-to-lower valance bolts as #9417075 #10-24 x 3/4" with a captured washer and #10-24 nut with captured washer #3759924. Do these bolts look like originals?

Nope. Those bolts in the photos have integral washers (washer heads), and the originals had "captured" washers, which are free-spinning, to avoid tearing up the plastic spoiler when they torque up.
75  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Chevrolet's process for having another run of parts manufactured on: June 01, 2014, 09:42:50 AM

How many would have been manufactured for the first run?

After the initial run who would be in charge of the next buying order if the part was going to be used during production? Designers or someone more interested in the bottom line?

How would the process go?
Would a current sample be provided with a set of drawings and would the sample be used as a casting model (to make new casting dies) to submit for approval?
Or would the part be hand manufactured from drawings like it was originally?

The first run for inspection/approvals/tool tryout with temporary tooling would be less than 100 units.

Once appearance and Engineering approvals are secured, any future production runs would be handled by Purchasing and Supplier Quality, with Engineering input as required. The part drawing defines the part dimensionally, and Engineering would supply an appearance sample to be matched for finishes, etc.
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