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107840 Posts in 12526 Topics by 4821 Members
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1  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: car that lost its barn! on: December 25, 2014, 12:20:24 PM
The N89 wheels alone are worth $15K.   Angry
2  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: 67 Camaro Rear Seat - RS on: December 24, 2014, 10:30:51 AM
<< Do RS's come with standard? I have only seen Deluxe. >>

Standard interior came on every Camaro unless the customer ordered an optional Deluxe interior..
3  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Rally wheel dating on: December 24, 2014, 10:25:32 AM
<< Are you saying that they are not orig? >>

I don't know, but every Kelsey-Hayes wheel I've ever seen has the size, month and year date, K-H logo, and Tire & Rim Association certification logo stamped on the inside, under the tire.
4  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Rally wheel dating on: December 23, 2014, 02:37:30 PM

I've never seen a 67 model year DG wheel with a year stamp of 66, so I'm wondering if they just started that year & month stamp in January 1967?

 

Kelsey-Hayes has been stamping the wheel size and month and year date code on the inside of the rim since 1951; Chevrolet wheels didn't get the type code and dating stamped on the outside of the rim adjacent to the valve stem until 1968.
5  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 21, 2014, 11:40:58 AM
John Z as a young foreman working the line what was your first impression of this ( '67-'69 ) new pony car called Camaro? Did you owned one at the time or was it just another car? I know the bigger car were popular back then and did you know about the COPO 427 '69 camaro's then? I like the first person history.

Those of us at Willow Run were introduced to the new Camaro first-hand, as the first 1,100 Norwood Camaros were shipped to Willow Run to have the steering linkages changed; there had been a heat-treat process failure at Chevrolet-Buffalo (where the steering linkages were made), and it wasn't found and contained until 1,100 cars had been built.

We shut down production at Willow Run, cleaned out the Final Process Repair Department on a Friday, and converted the two light mechanical repair lines on Saturday to a disassembly line to remove the steering linkage, and an assembly line to install the new certified-OK linkages from Buffalo, re-roll-tested and re-set toe-in, re-shipped the Camaros to their original destinations, and resumed normal production on Monday. On Saturday we burned-up every pitman arm puller in the plant, bought every one we could find at every auto parts store in Ypsilanti, and got the President of Kent-Moore (GM's Service Tool supplier) out of bed Friday night to get every pitman arm puller they had in their warehouse to Willow Run.

That exercise gave us a first-hand look at the new Camaro; in those days they scheduled the plain-Jane low-option cars first and introduced complexity gradually as they ramped-up, so we saw mostly six-cylinder cars, bench seats, and manual transmissions (three on the tree).

At that time my personal cars were a '65 Tri-Power GTO and a '65 Corvette; I later sold the GTO and bought a new '67 Impala SS427 from the Engineering Fleet.
6  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Mirror Restoration on: December 21, 2014, 11:13:00 AM
I have a set of door mirrors for a 1969 Camaro I would like to have restored because they are "Originals".

What is a "set"?  1969 Camaros only had one door mirror, on the driver's side.
7  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Correct Dip stick on: December 20, 2014, 11:16:58 AM
Mike,
The measurements in the P&A are taken from the seal surface facing the stick end. The problem is that the stick shown is generic in that it has a washer and a seal and no bell.
Stop the press. Just found something interesting in my 67 Corvette AIM that may explain the purple button.
Bob


'67 Corvette big-blocks had dipsticks with pink (salmon) buttons, both before and after the mid-season running change.
8  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Intake Date Code on: December 20, 2014, 11:10:51 AM
How about  intake # 3933163 date 3-29-68 on a motor # 3935440 date G 1 8  L.A. 69 car ?

G 1 8 is the block casting date - what matters is the engine assembly date.
9  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 20, 2014, 11:04:10 AM
John,
   But did you solve the problem?
    Victor

Absolutely! See the end of the second paragraph in that post:

<<I described to him the line-stop problem that caused, and asked if he could wipe off his brush elsewhere. He understood, and said he could do that, no problem. I thanked him, and headed back toward the Chevrolet side, pleased that I had solved this apparently unsolvable problem with ten minutes' work.>>
10  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Correct Dip stick on: December 18, 2014, 12:41:33 PM
Is there a part number on that stick?

As a general rule, assembly line dipsticks didn't have a part number on them, but some Service replacements did.
11  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Intake Date Code on: December 18, 2014, 12:35:16 PM
I picked up a 3931067 intake last night. The intake date code is A319. Jan 31, 69. Would that be too early to be "correct" for a 7/28/69 CJF 396?





It's not impossible, but it's certainly not "typical" to have an intake that pre-dates its usage by seven months.
12  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 18, 2014, 12:27:22 PM
I have no idea whether the bodies were cowl-tagged at Plant 21 or later at Fisher-Norwood, or both (re-tagged later); the fact that nobody seems to know anything about the Camaro Pilot process at Plant 21 or Fisher-Norwood shows the virtually nonexistent communication between Chevrolet and Fisher Body at the working level. Our nuclear submarine program should have had security that good.  Grin

Here's a personal example of the working-level relationship between the two Divisions. When I was a Production Foreman at Chevrolet-Willow Run in 1964, my Towveyor line had at least one full line stop a day for baked sealer in a weld nut preventing installation of an engine mount bolt. After complaining about it many times to our Chevrolet Inspection Department with no results, I took it upon myself to go "through the wall" to the Fisher Paint Shop to find the source of the problem. I found my way to the Sealer Deck, and to the operator who was occasionally wiping off his sealer brush on my weld nut; I described to him the line-stop problem that caused, and asked if he could wipe off his brush elsewhere. He understood, and said he could do that, no problem. I thanked him, and headed back toward the Chevrolet side, pleased that I had solved this apparently unsolvable problem with ten minutes' work.

About the time I found the door back to the stairs to Chevrolet, I was accosted by the Fisher Body Paint Shop Superintendent, who was obviously madder than hell - he demanded to know what I was doing up there, and I told him I had just solved a line-stop problem. He said, "Don't you know you're not allowed on this side of the plant? You don't belong here, and you don't talk to any of my people - all you Chevrolet a**holes need to know is the body comes up here raw and goes back down shiny, and what happens inbetween is none of your damn business - now get the hell out of my Paint Shop, and don't come back."

As I walked back to my line, I wondered how ANY problems got solved between Chevrolet and Fisher Body. About an hour later, the Chevrolet Production Manager (essentially the Chevrolet assistant Plant Manager) showed up and tore me a new one over being caught on the Fisher side of the plant, and said he'd fire me if it happened again. That philosophy is why nobody at Chevrolet-Norwood knows anything about the Fisher Body-Norwood portion of the Camaro Pilot program.  Embarrassed
13  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: IS THIS ANOTHER MILLION DOLLAR 6 BANGER ? on: December 17, 2014, 12:40:41 PM
I got this "302" plate for my '69 Z 15 years ago - couldn't believe it was still available without the Mustang guys grabbing it.  Smiley
14  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 17, 2014, 12:31:24 PM
The booklet shows Fisher #DD01D with Fisher Pilot Plant #21 - Detroit as the starting location.

Would that be a complete body delivered to Chev with front fenders and rolling chassis, or just the firewall back as they would be delivered during actual production?

Nope. Fisher Body was only involved with the body shell from the firewall back - they had absolutely NOTHING to do with any Car Division front sheet metal, chassis, powertrain, or instrument panel parts. Every part you see in the Assembly Manual with a part number on it is a part designed, developed, released and manufactured or purchased by Chevrolet and installed by Chevrolet employees in the Chevrolet side of the assembly plant after receiving the painted and trimmed firewall-back body shell from the Fisher Body side of the plant. Although both Chevrolet and Fisher Body were divisions of GM, Fisher Body was a different world, and Fisher worked very hard to keep it that way.
15  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: pad stamp? on: December 15, 2014, 11:38:26 AM
The Flint and Tonawanda block broaches were about the size of a locomotive, and machined 5,500 blocks per day in two linear passes - first pass did the pan rail and upper half of the main bearing bores, and the second pass did the block deck and front and rear "wall" surfaces. See photo below showing both sets of broach blades.
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