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107558 Posts in 12508 Topics by 4812 Members
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1  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Correct Dip stick on: Today at 11:16:58 AM
Mike,
The measurements in the P&A are taken from the seal surface facing the stick end. The problem is that the stick shown is generic in that it has a washer and a seal and no bell.
Stop the press. Just found something interesting in my 67 Corvette AIM that may explain the purple button.
Bob


'67 Corvette big-blocks had dipsticks with pink (salmon) buttons, both before and after the mid-season running change.
2  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Intake Date Code on: Today at 11:10:51 AM
How about  intake # 3933163 date 3-29-68 on a motor # 3935440 date G 1 8  L.A. 69 car ?

G 1 8 is the block casting date - what matters is the engine assembly date.
3  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: Today at 11:04:10 AM
John,
   But did you solve the problem?
    Victor

Absolutely! See the end of the second paragraph in that post:

<<I described to him the line-stop problem that caused, and asked if he could wipe off his brush elsewhere. He understood, and said he could do that, no problem. I thanked him, and headed back toward the Chevrolet side, pleased that I had solved this apparently unsolvable problem with ten minutes' work.>>
4  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Correct Dip stick on: December 18, 2014, 12:41:33 PM
Is there a part number on that stick?

As a general rule, assembly line dipsticks didn't have a part number on them, but some Service replacements did.
5  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Intake Date Code on: December 18, 2014, 12:35:16 PM
I picked up a 3931067 intake last night. The intake date code is A319. Jan 31, 69. Would that be too early to be "correct" for a 7/28/69 CJF 396?





It's not impossible, but it's certainly not "typical" to have an intake that pre-dates its usage by seven months.
6  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 18, 2014, 12:27:22 PM
I have no idea whether the bodies were cowl-tagged at Plant 21 or later at Fisher-Norwood, or both (re-tagged later); the fact that nobody seems to know anything about the Camaro Pilot process at Plant 21 or Fisher-Norwood shows the virtually nonexistent communication between Chevrolet and Fisher Body at the working level. Our nuclear submarine program should have had security that good.  Grin

Here's a personal example of the working-level relationship between the two Divisions. When I was a Production Foreman at Chevrolet-Willow Run in 1964, my Towveyor line had at least one full line stop a day for baked sealer in a weld nut preventing installation of an engine mount bolt. After complaining about it many times to our Chevrolet Inspection Department with no results, I took it upon myself to go "through the wall" to the Fisher Paint Shop to find the source of the problem. I found my way to the Sealer Deck, and to the operator who was occasionally wiping off his sealer brush on my weld nut; I described to him the line-stop problem that caused, and asked if he could wipe off his brush elsewhere. He understood, and said he could do that, no problem. I thanked him, and headed back toward the Chevrolet side, pleased that I had solved this apparently unsolvable problem with ten minutes' work.

About the time I found the door back to the stairs to Chevrolet, I was accosted by the Fisher Body Paint Shop Superintendent, who was obviously madder than hell - he demanded to know what I was doing up there, and I told him I had just solved a line-stop problem. He said, "Don't you know you're not allowed on this side of the plant? You don't belong here, and you don't talk to any of my people - all you Chevrolet a**holes need to know is the body comes up here raw and goes back down shiny, and what happens inbetween is none of your damn business - now get the hell out of my Paint Shop, and don't come back."

As I walked back to my line, I wondered how ANY problems got solved between Chevrolet and Fisher Body. About an hour later, the Chevrolet Production Manager (essentially the Chevrolet assistant Plant Manager) showed up and tore me a new one over being caught on the Fisher side of the plant, and said he'd fire me if it happened again. That philosophy is why nobody at Chevrolet-Norwood knows anything about the Fisher Body-Norwood portion of the Camaro Pilot program.  Embarrassed
7  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: IS THIS ANOTHER MILLION DOLLAR 6 BANGER ? on: December 17, 2014, 12:40:41 PM
I got this "302" plate for my '69 Z 15 years ago - couldn't believe it was still available without the Mustang guys grabbing it.  Smiley
8  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 17, 2014, 12:31:24 PM
The booklet shows Fisher #DD01D with Fisher Pilot Plant #21 - Detroit as the starting location.

Would that be a complete body delivered to Chev with front fenders and rolling chassis, or just the firewall back as they would be delivered during actual production?

Nope. Fisher Body was only involved with the body shell from the firewall back - they had absolutely NOTHING to do with any Car Division front sheet metal, chassis, powertrain, or instrument panel parts. Every part you see in the Assembly Manual with a part number on it is a part designed, developed, released and manufactured or purchased by Chevrolet and installed by Chevrolet employees in the Chevrolet side of the assembly plant after receiving the painted and trimmed firewall-back body shell from the Fisher Body side of the plant. Although both Chevrolet and Fisher Body were divisions of GM, Fisher Body was a different world, and Fisher worked very hard to keep it that way.
9  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: pad stamp? on: December 15, 2014, 11:38:26 AM
The Flint and Tonawanda block broaches were about the size of a locomotive, and machined 5,500 blocks per day in two linear passes - first pass did the pan rail and upper half of the main bearing bores, and the second pass did the block deck and front and rear "wall" surfaces. See photo below showing both sets of broach blades.
10  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 1969 Burnished brown Z/28's on: December 15, 2014, 11:31:21 AM
cross ram in the trunk (never installed and sold with the car);

No Z/28 EVER came with a cross-ram setup in the trunk - if you wanted to buy one, it came in a box over the counter in the dealer's Parts Department.
11  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 14, 2014, 11:02:53 AM
John,
Can you clarify one thing?
Final assembly on the Chevrolet side was off-line? That I didn't realize. I assumed it was on the main line.

I almost didn't post, knowing that John would be the authoritative reply on this. Smiley

I wasn't there, but the "Echoes of Norwood" book only makes one tiny reference to assembly of the Pilot cars, and refers to "Pilots were hand-built at first out in the rear area of the plant under extreme secrecy...". It also refers to "..later Pilots used to test the assembly line configuration and line setup...", but doesn't say how many or when. This, of course, refers only to Chevrolet, as nobody at Chevrolet-Norwood had any knowledge at all of what was going on at Fisher-Norwood (or at Plant #21). Fisher Body was a separate division of GM, and Chevrolet wasn't allowed to peek, even though there was only a wall between them. If it weren't for Frank Beaulieu's Pilot Schedule booklet (which was backed up by huge dedicated binders containing the complete Chevrolet Engineering Bill of Material required to build each car), we wouldn't know ANYTHING about the Fisher Body portion of the Camaro Pilot program. Fisher Body-Norwood knew all about it, but they never talked to anyone at Chevrolet, so there's nothing in the Norwood book about it.

Remember that the Chevrolet side of the Norwood plant underwent a major conversion and expansion as soon as the last '66 production cars and trucks came off the line, as the Truck Line was then torn out (and sent to Atlanta) and that space was used to expand and rearrange the passenger car conveyor system to increase hourly production capacity to match that of the adjacent Fisher Body plant.
12  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 14, 2014, 10:27:42 AM
The booklet shows Fisher #DD01D with Fisher Pilot Plant #21 - Detroit as the starting location.

Would that be a complete body delivered to Chev with front fenders and rolling chassis, or just the firewall back as they would be delivered during actual production?



Just the body from the firewall back, same as production - Fisher Body had nothing to do with front sheet metal, chassis, engine, or Car Division options - all of that came from Chevrolet after receiving the body from Fisher.
13  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 13, 2014, 02:13:32 PM
I spent about half of my 21-year GM career in the pre-productiion and pilot end of the business, including almost four years as the Senior Passenger Car Process Engineer at the Chevrolet Pilot Line in Flint, which was the location for Chevrolet Final Assembly of major new model Pilot vehicles (carryover and minor change Pilot programs were handled in the Assembly Plants).

First, let's get the terminology correct - the Fisher Body assembly plants that built Chevrolet bodies delivered them to their adjacent Chevrolet assembly plant, not to "GM" (Fisher Body and Chevrolet were both Divisions of GM, although you'd never know it by watching them try to communicate). Fisher delivered to Chevrolet.

Fisher Body new major model Pilot programs were run in downtown Detroit, at Fisher Body Plant #21; this 8-story plant (the rotting ruins of which are shown in a video on YouTube) is where all of the Pilot bodies were welded, painted, and trimmed, to be delivered to their Chevrolet customers (and to Fisher Body Engineering). All of the new welding and body-in-white assembly tooling was set up at Plant #21, and later shipped to the primary assembly plant (Fisher-Norwood in this case) for installation and final tuning. The Chevrolet pre-production paperwork (handled by Frank Beaulieu's Pilot Specs Group at the Pilot Line) indicates Fisher Body Plant #21 as the source for all of the Camaro Pilot bodies. During the off-season, Plant #21 was also Fisher's production plant for Cadillac Fleetwood custom limousine bodies, supplied to the Cadillac Clark Street assembly plant.

Fisher-Norwood had no BODY Pilot facility to weld and build new bodies - they took the bodies from Plant #21, did whatever they needed to do with them, and sent them "through the wall" to Chevrolet-Norwood (based on Chevrolet's schedule) for final assembly and shipping to the ultimate Chevrolet customer (Engineering, Sales, Manufacturing, etc.).

The Chevrolet-Flint Pilot Line wasn't directly involved with Final Assembly of the Camaro Pilot cars - they were final-assembled at Chevrolet-Norwood in a secure off-line area dedicated to the Pilot program. Normally, in a large multi-plant Pilot program (like the "B"-body Impala/Caprice, which was built in eleven plants at 6,000 per day), nearly all of the Pilot cars were final-assembled at the Chevrolet Pilot Line (from bodies supplied by Fisher Body Plant #21) and shipped to their customers - see photo below of finished '68 "B"-bodies leaving the Pilot Line.

Without getting into a lot of gory detail, that's how the Fisher Body-Chevrolet Pilot programs worked in the 60's.

14  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: exhaust manifold torque small block on: December 12, 2014, 10:57:58 AM
And if you expect to be able to remove the exhaust manifold bolts at some later date, use a film of hi-temp anti-sieze on them when you install them.  Smiley
15  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: if you could go back and redesign the 67/8 .. or that other one, on: December 11, 2014, 11:40:07 AM
Hmm, I was thinking they had drag slicks even in the mid 60's. Wasn't big daddy's swamp rat around in the late 50's?

I was referring to PRODUCTION tires (the kind they designed the car around).  ;-0
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