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109215 Posts in 12649 Topics by 4861 Members
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196  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Brake booster question. on: February 02, 2012, 06:10:35 PM
There's probably more discussions over on the Team Camaro site when it comes to modifying/upgrading brake systems over the original factory setup.  You may want to ask around over there also, if you have more questions. 
197  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Correct Fasteners and headmarkings on: January 31, 2012, 02:16:32 PM
In a perfect world there would be old GM documents still around indicating fastener suppliers each year at each assembly plant.  I think the first step is to ID the manufacturer head marking along with details of car it was on (model year, plant, Fisher build week, survivor or partial restore or fully restored, p/n, size and finish and notes like captured washers, how many required versus how many found on the car, etc).  Not to say this is always the case, but I think there may be some newer fasteners/manufacturers that have been used on so many restorations that they are now assumed to be born-with correct.  And even on a survivor a bolt could have been replaced along the years.  Another obstacle is where do we find a definitive listing of fastener suppliers and all their head markings, especially from the late 1960s?  Once that's done you could look at the identified manufacturer and see if they pass the logic test (existed in 1967-69, used that logo in that period, were they a GM supplier at that period, where their plants were located, etc).  Would require contacting the manufacturers, and there will be gray areas such as suppliers no longer in business, suppliers that were acquired by another company since then, non responsive suppliers, or lack of old info, etc).  This will weed out some manufacturers.  Then add in the knowledge of 1960s GM suppliers from our experts who were there.  You'll still have variances due to the "bin of mixed vendor bolts" they had on the assembly lines, but I think patterns will emerge as far as specific manufacturers used and their proximity to the assembly plants.  For example, it seems like the ones we can already confirm were located in Ohio, Michigan, probably Illinois and maybe California.  Unless it's a special fastener I doubt you will confirm use of a fastener made in Maine or Texas, probably not even Canada from that period, and I suspect we may be down to fewer manufacturer's than the number of logos we currently have.     
198  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Correct Fasteners and headmarkings on: January 30, 2012, 05:22:03 PM
Russ - Thanks again! Your knowledge with regards to these companies is impressive. Do you mind sharing where your knowledge comes from? Is there reference material you can recommend? Hope you don't mind me picking your brain.  Wink

I've been looking at DOD Handbook "Listing of Fastener Manufacturer's Identification Symbols" MIL-HNBK-57F (IS), Revision F, 21 June 2011.  The Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) is responsible for the publication.

I think someone eluded to it here on an earlier post.  A decent start but by no means complete.  That's why I haven't commented on all the markings.  Also some of the logos are hand drawn, plus the ones with just a letter marking are difficult to determine from just a drawing.  A, D, C and E seem to be popular.  The first version came out in Sept 1989, and the manufacturers have to submit their info for inclusion.  So it does not have all manufacturers, and apparently any company that went out of business before this date is not in the book, unless there was an earlier data source rolled into that first version.  It also isn't clear if company's are dropped once they go out of business or are permanently retained.  I'd think there has to be a better source out there, but I've not found one.  I've also tried to verify markings from the handbook by going to the manufacturers' websites, but very few show markings on their sites. 

199  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Correct Fasteners and headmarkings on: January 30, 2012, 12:56:56 PM
Those TTL appear to be more Camcar Div. of Textron, Tap-Tite Products, related to the #37 above.  What's odd is the one on the left has that flag-in-the-wind looking logo below, which is Elco Industries.
200  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 69 302 Starter Motor Brace Bolts on: January 27, 2012, 10:29:31 AM
I think what he is asking about is the nut and the black bolt in the pic..  These attach the brace at the front of the starter to the side of the block.  I believe they are 1/4 in.

Nope, 5/16-18 x 5/8 w/ captured lock washer.  Someone with Jerry M's book might be able to comment on the finish and head marking. 
201  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Correct Fasteners and headmarkings on: January 26, 2012, 06:25:52 PM
37 looks like Camcar Div of Textron, TapTite Products, Belvidere IL
45 maybe INFASCO, Quebec
38 looks like logo for Korea Bolt Ind. Co, LTD Seoul 

202  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 69 302 Starter Motor Brace Bolts on: January 26, 2012, 04:25:14 PM
As a start, get the part number from the 69 AIM, then go to AMK Products website and click on the pdf catalog button on the left side.  The very last section at the bottom of the chapters list has a cross ref for some of the fasteners, see if yours is listed under GM section, then go to that page of the pdf catalog for a description and pic.  There is also a section somewhere in the catalog that describes the codes for the different finishes.  Many of the parts houses get their fasteners from AMK.  Others may comment here, to include opinion on AMK correctness, but always best to begin searching on your own.  You can also try advanced searches here, up near the top of the page, using a few key words. 
203  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Correct Fasteners and headmarkings on: January 26, 2012, 01:02:55 PM
Some guesswork/SWAG-ing on head marking pics above:

D - possibly G.B. Dupont of Troy MI (with three radiating grade 5 hardness markings), entered into a L.P. with Kamax of Germany around 1974 and not sure if the D mark was dropped or retained afterwards

O - with six radiating grade 8 hardness marks?, possibly Alcoa Global Fasteners of La Puenta CA or more likely Ring Screw of Troy, MI

TR - Towne Robinson of Dearborn, MI.  Went out of business early 1990s.  I think AMK still supplies TR, maybe being reproduced today?

C w/ H inside - Cold Heading Co., Warren, MI

S inside circle - possibly Specials, Inc. of Westfield, MA, which would not fit the OH/MI/CA pattern of fastener suppliers

P - possibly Prestige Stamping, Warren MI

ER in circle - no idea

2 w/ SS below - no idea

C - no idea

= = - no idea, I don't think there would not be any metric fasteners on a 60s GM vehicle, US built

M underlined - Ingersoll/INFASCO of Ontario uses this, but I think always with a triangle. Unlikely.

rectangle - no idea

A - no idea

L inside G - no idea, maybe Great Lakes as I see they are an AMK supplier?

L and F - no idea

204  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Correct Fasteners and headmarkings on: January 25, 2012, 10:15:44 AM
No idea, they also used an L8 and I believe L9, plus some other non "RB&W" head markings.  Some of the other fastener manufacturers also used several logos, maybe different divisions or plants. 
205  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Correct Fasteners and headmarkings on: January 24, 2012, 05:42:19 PM
That L5 head marking is a RB&W product, not sure what the D one is.
206  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Correct Hood Catch & Plate Fasteners on: January 20, 2012, 06:15:05 PM
So the "f" looking mark is Ferndale Fasteners, Madison Hgts, MI and the RBW is RB&W Corp (now RB&W Manufacturing, after several changes of ownership) with plants in Ohio.  A few others I can recall is the CL (overlayed) which is Centerline Tool & Engineering Corp, the circle with a "lazy" S in it which is Semco Fastener, and a "lazy" S without a circle which is Semblex Corp.  These things remind me of cattle brands from the old western movies.
207  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: BJ Auction - 67 RS went for $80k on: January 19, 2012, 02:19:11 PM
Must have been some sort of time-space anomaly, back to around 2005 or 2006.  That underhood shot has me doing face-palms.  
208  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: 67 Vent Window on: January 18, 2012, 12:37:54 AM
Are you talking about the material between the vent window glass and the frame around the glass, which mounts the glass into the frame?  If so, see the bottom right item on this site illustration, auto glass setting tape:

Here's another source, I imagine any glass shop would also carry this:
209  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: Body Sill Moulding/Rocker Panel Moulding on: January 13, 2012, 10:45:52 AM
IIRC, when taking off you want to gently pry from the bottom, using a somewhat wider tool to spread the pressure across the trim.  You can also place something under you pry tool to avoid paint damage.  Install is the opposite - hook the top edge over the lip first and align screw holes, then gently push down to snap it in.  I've seen some run a length of masking tape along the bottom to avoid chipping but personally I don't think it is necessary.  The aim is to first avoid any damage to the more visible top edge of the trim.
210  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: What rare part would you like to see a top quality reproduction produced? on: January 06, 2012, 05:41:06 PM
The small end pieces for the top trim on a fold down seat, but I doubt there's much demand.  Also air cleaner housing decals with the correct part number for K19 or K24 equipped cars.
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