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46  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 2014 camaro nationals on: June 28, 2014, 07:39:35 AM
.....
 Congrats on the score.    What did the judges decide on the trim rings?
.....
As Mike asked, what did the judges decide on the trim rings?

Apparently Scott is still celebrating his gold.. Smiley     but I know a lot of us are interested in what the judges are doing re the trim rings... and I don't have the bottom line answer either, but what I heard (second or third hand) before we left is that 'the judges are accepting 'both' kinds'...   not sure exactly what this means, other than the judges (as a team) aren't certain what the cars left the factory with.

IMO, this issue needs to be clarified, with photos of each kind (because there's a 3rd kind that is clearly not original - at least to me).  That 3rd kind with the four 'claws', not clips, I *think* may have been what Scott had on his car in 2013.   I think the two kinds they are currently accepting are the 4 clips (on the outer edge of the rings), and the continuous 'finger' type, but it would sure we good if someone who has better information on what the judges determination was ... would speak up with some details and why they are accepting the two kinds right now..?

My personal opinion is that the factory only used the 4-clip (which clips to the outer rim edge) thru 1969 - which I'm confident is what my Z28 came with, and sometime in '70 or later began using the finger style (my '77 MC had the finger style).
47  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Research Topics & Reports / Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles on: June 27, 2014, 09:37:25 PM
In my humble opinion, that would not be unusual.  There is almost always some overlap.

For example, on the weekend I saw Muncie M20 assembled in August of 1969, with a 1970 VIN on it (I think for a Buick).  It had the 660 case but with both a drain and a fill plug - and used the 1970 style plugs. 

How is that unusual Bryon?   An August '69 Muncie trans for a Buick would be going into a '70 model Buick wouldn't it?   Typically model changeover during those days was July for the transition, and by late July and August they are building for the new model year..
48  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Research Topics & Reports / Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles on: June 27, 2014, 09:49:52 AM
Actually Jims69 will bracket it better, his car is about 197 after mine and his has the C. I sent him a message hopefully he can post the casting and date on his.

Wow..   197 cars is like a few hours, unless it's the end of one day/beginning of the next day production, OR with it being a new thing (stamping the C) in the differential plant, perhaps they just weren't consistent yet..?
49  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Research Topics & Reports / Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles on: June 27, 2014, 09:03:22 AM
Bullitt's 0815, without the C (but with the 341 rear), and Sarge's WITH the C, stamped 0820..  pretty well brackets the change to use of the 'C' (1970 format) to between the dates of 15 August and 20August 1969.   Bullitt's diff is the later casting number, but without the 'C', so that seems to imply that the two changes (C) and 341 casting, did not occurr simultaneously...

The rear end casting, and use of the 'C' in front of the diff app stamp are two more items to add to our list of intended 1970 changes that were applied to 'late 1969 extended production of Camaros and Corvettes.   I think it would be a good research report to itemize all the things that 'changed', as well as best known dates of change, for late production, and would be useful in the generation of an 'ultimate' Restoration and judging reference manual for Camaros.
50  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 1969 Oil Pressure Gauge Block Sender Fitting on: June 26, 2014, 03:37:31 PM
His post on TC was sorta confusing as to which one he believed to be correct; his first photo was the one with the 'internally threaded' compression fitting and the last two photos he posted showed an externally threaded compression fitting.   
Steve:  You're saying that you agree with Dave that his 'first photo' shows the correct 'internally threaded' compression fitting?

Gary W,
I'm sorry that my post / pictures on TC #1 confused you with my verbage or which one I believed to be correct. The correct fitting is the one I posted with both male ends and all those pictures are of the same fitting with and without the oil line cap screwed on.  What I was trying to say or write should have read:  There has been some discussion reference the original oil line brass fitting. The one that keeps being discussed with the female end that is believed to be correct, but isn't is usally seen on early 60's vehicle.  All the oil line fitting that I have seen on a 69 Z28 is the one that I have pictured. Even my L48 Z11 Car has this fitting also and it original to the car. Maybe both styles were used, but I never seen that fitting used and a 69 Camaro Gauge Package Car".   


No problem man...  besides being easily confused, I can't see or hear very well either..  Smiley     when I looked at those three photos, the first one (with the cap on) seems like the other type of fitting, rather than the same fitting with a cap on it...   I can see now that you showed the assembled unit first, then the broken down parts...  Sorry about my confusion!  Smiley
51  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Purpose of this bracket?? on: June 26, 2014, 11:50:36 AM
Quote
To clarify Gary, single exhaust usage only, but ALL cars got it regardless.

Hmmm...just checked my '69 Van Nuys Built Z and no bracket.  Original floor pans.  No sign it was removed.   Sure all cars go it?   I don't have a good picture of that area, but can post later.



Your car has been restored, hasn't it Hans?  Perhaps it was removed as 'unnecessary' during that process?   OR perhaps they weren't consistent with putting it on?  Bryan302 told me this morning he didn't find it on his '69 either...

Maybe we need another 'research' activity to determine what percentage (or time of year?) taht dual exhaust cars got that bracket mounted to the body....?
52  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Original Black Primer Underside of Body 69 Z/28's on: June 26, 2014, 08:45:59 AM
Gary, I know its not primer, but the sikkens rally black I used is low gloss like the firewall and will be a lot tougher. I used it as the phosphate coat. I wasn't crazy about leaving a primer on the bottom and not top coat it. Ppg makes epoxy in several colors including light and dark grey that I think would be close in color

Bill,  Thanks for your suggestions; I also suspect that preparing the bottom of the car and using a hardened paint (epoxy or urethane), mixed to approximate the color and gloss levels would best serve as that 'first protective coating' of the floor.  I used PPG epoxy primer on my Nomad floor to approximate the factory's brown/redoxide primer used in the 50's..
53  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Nice 69 Convertible - not mine on: June 26, 2014, 07:18:34 AM
Appears Lawrence wasn't the only one up reading Camaro stuff until the wee hours.. Smiley
54  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Grill emblem placement for a 1969 Z/28 RS vs Standard on: June 26, 2014, 07:14:54 AM
After I purchased my car in 1976, the grill Z28 emblem didn't appear 'correct' to my eyes (not based on documentation, just 'appearance').. and I moved it to center it on the 3rd vertical.   As I recall, it only will go on 'properly' in specific locations (ie. positioning is not totally artitrary, as the little backing plate will only go on in certain locations).   Centered on the 3rd vertical is what appears 'correct' to me now, and appeared correct to me in '76..

55  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 69 Z/11 L78 Pace Car "Unrestored survivor" on: June 25, 2014, 09:47:25 PM
Does that same '11Nxxxxxx' stamping appear on your transmission?
56  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Purpose of this bracket?? on: June 25, 2014, 09:39:16 PM
n
Probably there to hold up that end of the muffler? I thought I just saw recently the tail pipes were welded to the muffler OEM? Was there a bracket attached to the frame rail on the passenger side for single exhaust?

 Hey Gary, look on the driver side, I assuming yours is passenger side? There should be a bracket there too. Here is a pic of the one on my car driver side I noticed when I dropped my gas take a few years ago. If I'm looking at the orientation of your pic that should be drivers side correct?

No Gary, that is on the drivers side; nothing on the passenger side, and apparently that bracket is put on the bottom of the body for all cars, but only used for single exhaust cars.   Dual exhaust cars use the brackets we've discussed many times before.. Smiley
57  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Purpose of this bracket?? on: June 25, 2014, 09:37:04 PM
Looks like only single exhaust cars. I don't see any reference to it in the N10 or the NC8 option pages.
Ed
To clarify Gary, single exhaust usage only, but ALL cars got it regardless.

Thanks guys..  I'd been wondering what that was for, as I didn't recall it ever being used since I'd had the car, and it appears to have Never been used...  Smiley
58  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Original Black Primer Underside of Body 69 Z/28's on: June 25, 2014, 06:02:01 PM
The majority of the underside of my car is 'black/dark gray'.. (the phosphate apparently).. which explains how touch it is.
I also have some 'oversprays' of  red oxide/brown (primer?), and gray (sealer?), and orange (topcoat color), as well as a little black (rocker blackout)...  I think this corresponds perfectly to what John Z wrote in his paper re " First Generation Camaro Assembly Process", ie...

"The Paint Shop is broken down into phosphate, prime, sealing, and color departments;"...

I'm attempting to assist Bryan302 in his restoration, and I think the only part of this we have to 'simulate' is the phosphating 'black/darkgray' first step.   Does anyone have any suggestions for how to best perform that step??
59  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Purpose of this bracket?? on: June 25, 2014, 05:55:31 PM
Was that hangar bracket used on dual exhaust cars?  Or only on single exhaust V8 and L6 cars?? I don't think anything has ever been attached to that bracket since I've owned the car (1976).. I took off the original exhaust and replaced it with GM parts at that time....
60  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Purpose of this bracket?? on: June 25, 2014, 03:27:47 PM
Can anyone identify the purpose of the bracket shown in the photo below?   It's welded to the body, slightly behind and above the rear end on the driver's side...   If I removed anything from this bracket, I can't recall what it was..  Smiley
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