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104590 Posts in 12238 Topics by 4719 Members
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1531  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 69 Z28 Radiator Re-coring ? on: April 19, 2013, 05:07:17 PM
I took my radiator to a local radiator shop (two of them before I found one who would do what I wanted).. and described what I needed them to do; which was 1) to dis-assemble my radiator for me including removing the top/bottom rails from the core, 2)  I picked up the parts, and cleaned all the parts I was going to reuse (side tanks, tag, brackets, and top and bottom rails); the core company requires that the rails be 'clean metal, no paint or rust., and 3) I shipped off the rails to the core company after first *ordering a '69 repro radiator core, with qualified notes to use the rails I would send them, 4) the 'custom core' was sent to the radiator shop for reinstalling with my tanks/etc.  I held onto all my critical parts until the core was returned and the shop called me (for fear damage might occur if they laid around the shop for a couple of weeks).   Three days later I picked up my redone radiator, minus paint..  because I wanted to paint it myself.

The radiator shop told me that they only had to heat up the rails all the way across to remove from the core... (each little fin is soldered to the rails)..
they said 'no problem' for them, but I have no idea how I would have done it.. Smiley
1532  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: my 69 Z being restored on: April 19, 2013, 12:52:18 PM
The 'wild' Chrysler colors (Plum Crazy, LemonLime, etc) were not introduced until the 1970 model year.  I don't recall a 'purple' factory color from any of the manufacturers prior to 1970.  At the time, the Chrysler wild colors were VERY different... Smiley   (I special ordered a lime green '70 Roadrunner in the fall of 1969, and bought my wife a '70 Challenger RT/SE in the plum crazy color in 1970.
Incidentally, Chrysler used only Acrylic Enamel in 1970, in fact, even back into the 60's and possibly the 50's.   They were the first of the US auto companies to switch to acrylic enamel (rather than lacquer) and that was one of the reasons Chrysler got the 'quality' rap they did back then.   Ford converted from lacquer to enamel sometime after Chrysler, and GM was the last US company to cling to use of acrylic lacquer (~1980 timeframe)..
1533  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Front license plate bracket question. on: April 19, 2013, 12:07:13 PM
....  I wonder if it was used on any other vehicles besides the Z28. Ever notice how high prices are for Z28 parts? Man, these people are holding these parts hostage and asking ransom type money like we're all zillionaires. 
.. and there are a TON of parts 'misrepresented' to be '69 Z28' parts... on ebay.   Let the Buyer Beware!!  If you do a search for '69 Z28 original used parts'..  you get parts for Fords, GM back to 1928, etc..  Smiley  *Everyone puts '69 Z28' in as one of their keywords, regardless of what the part is for...
1534  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: my 69 Z being restored on: April 19, 2013, 12:04:28 PM
Clem:  Since we don't have the original ordering and factory paperwork for documentation, the basic issue is 'What special paint options' did GM provide in 1969?  Was it limited to existing GM (current year) paint codes, OR did they allow special orders in any color they could reasonably buy the paint for - ie back to 65?
I don't know the answer, but if it was limited to '69 colors, then the Buick sunset silver and olds flamingo silver were '69 GM paint options that are extremely close to the color being discussed.  There was also one or more Cadillac colors that seemed to have a bit more 'pink' than the olds/buick color if that was available for special order also.   What were the 'special paint' rules employed in the Camaro factory (Norwood I assume since you are in PA) for the '69 model year?   Up into the late 70's or early 80's, at least, it was possible to buy 'factory pack' lacquer paint in essentially any prior GM colors used.  I bought a gallon or 'hugger orange' acrylic lacquer in the late 70's that I just popped the top off a couple of days ago.. Smiley

1969 GM colors:  The Buick 'Sunset Silver' and Oldsmobile's 'flamingo silver' shared the same GM Paint code:   WA3956,
1965 GM colors:  The Chevelle 'Evening Orchid' and Pontiac's 'Iris Mist' share the same GM paint code:  WA3308
It would be very interesting to compare the color compositions (formulas) between the two colors; I'd bet we'd all be surprised how little difference there is in the formulas...  and we should all remember that in '65 and '69 (and in fact thru the late '70's into the early 80's), GM only painted in lacquer, which is very subject to fading over the years, depending on the exposure to the sun's UV and the elements.

Example of the '65 WA3308 on a GTO which is extremely close to the exposed paint under the camaro roof rail, and which is MUCH less 'pink' than the b/c paint shown previously on the camaro being restored.

I don't know the answers here, but I do think it's possible that no one in the argument is *wrong*...  Smiley
Without more documentation re the specific order or specific documentation on GM 'rules for special paint' ordering, I think we are all simply voicing 'opinions'.   And 44 yrs after the fact is a LONG time to ask someone questions like "what was the paint code on the order.. etc..."   Hell..  I have problems at times remembering what I had for breakfast this morning.. Smiley

1535  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: my 69 Z being restored on: April 19, 2013, 10:15:03 AM

I'm just guessing, but I'd say probably half the folks on this site weren't born yet in '69... Smiley
1536  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: N30 steering wheel restoration on: April 18, 2013, 11:00:51 PM
If the '60's steering wheels are the same material as the mid 50's *(55-57), then I can recommend using 'Marine Tex' as the filler agent.  I've done several steering wheels for fifties car in the long ago past using that material, which I purchased from local marine/boat businesses.   It works great and appears as the original wheel material, but it is a time consuming repair to 'V' cut the bad material around the cracks and provide additional adhesion surface, then file, sand down to the original wheel contour prior to paint.   Using lacquer on steering wheels wears off quickly, and Sauron's suggestion to use a urethane surfacer and paint is a better idea.

marine tex seems to still be available:
1537  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 69 Z28 Radiator Re-coring ? on: April 18, 2013, 10:35:21 PM
Attached is a photo of the top and bottom rails of my '69 Z28 Radiator after disassembly, beadblasting, and metal conditioning.  This is as they were sent to the core mfg to install on the new core.
1538  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Need cheap insurance on: April 17, 2013, 10:52:15 PM
Sounds like some of these states are just money hungry. Why else would you be required to license a vehicle that is not driven.
'some states'Huh   make that  ALL States, ALL Cities, ALL Counties, in fact ALL government/political entities... and you'd be right, and they don't care how they get their next millions.. just so long as they get it.. so they can continue their waste....
1539  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: REALLY LOUD '69 on: April 17, 2013, 02:12:59 PM
My suggestion is taht it would be MUCH less expensive to go to car shows, check ebay/etc.. for a car you like. and buy it.. it might seem expensive, but it's much preferable to going down that long road with a 'blank check' at the end of it... that some might call 'having my car restored'...  Smiley
1540  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Need cheap insurance on: April 17, 2013, 02:10:14 PM
There is no way they can make you register and insure a car that is not on the street. I would have insurance on it anyway. At least fire and theft. Just call your agent and put it on. It won't be but $100.00 a year max.

Oh yes they can. I live in Maryland and though not always enforced, there is some law that requires you to have your motor vehicle registered. Any unregistered vehicle is considered "junk" by the county or state. All it takes is one neighbor to complain and the next day there is a notice taped to your door giving you about 30 days to register or remove vehicles. Again, its loosely enforced and I believe is more in effect to deter people from starting personal "junk yards" in a neighborhood. I argued my case with the county rep and my neighbors and I got to know each other a little better and now all is good.

As for insurance, I use Hagerty and they let you state the value so you could keep it low. However, they may require you to send pictures of the locked garage you keep the car in.  Undecided


Most of those ordinances are *city ordinances*, although there may also be some states that have similar.   I had an experience 30 yrs or so ago with my town (Huntsville, AL).   I had a Henry J parked on a concrete pad next to my home.   I kept it locked, clean, air in all the tires, Braked so it couldn't roll.   A neghbor apparently didn't like such views, and I got a notice from the city inspector.   I checked in with them, found out the basis for the ordinance was 'safety'..  ie a lot of such cars could allow small children to climb inside or fall out and get hurt, was a haven for snakes, pests, etc, was an eyesore..  I explained the conditions on my car, told them it was NOT unsafe, and an *eyesore* to one person was beauty to another.. Smiley     I told them I absollutely hated to see woodpiles and swing sets in my neighborhood, and that I couldn't move the car, it didn't have a motor or trans in it.  I couldn't drive it, thus no need to pay for a license, and that they should go ahead and penalize me so we could hurry to court...
It never happened!
1541  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: color of front leaf spring bracket? on: April 17, 2013, 02:02:52 PM
Thanks John!   so it appears I was mistaking 'the flowcoat primer' for being like the 'gm reconditioning black'...?
Can you provide any other details about the exact type of primer that was?  lacquer?  enamel?   Typically a primer is porous and absorbs moisture over time....  the paint used by GM doesn't seem to be very bad in that sense..?

I've always used the GM Reconditioning black as being the most similar paint I could use (to what was used in the factory), but was it?   what would be closer??
1542  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: my 69 Z being restored on: April 16, 2013, 09:15:15 PM
and some people are color blind...  Smiley
1543  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: color of front leaf spring bracket? on: April 16, 2013, 01:51:47 PM
The factory used the black wtihout primer (as you can tell when you strip down a an original part (which still has paint residue). 

What the factory used in the flow-coat system WAS the primer (black lacquer primer); what made it stick and last for years was the hot iron phosphate treatment, which provided the "tooth" on the raw metal for the paint to stick to.

I've cleaned and prepped a LOT of original factory parts (from '55's thru 'early 70's).. and the black underhood/underbody parts always showed nothing but black, and I assumed it was all the black finish coat.    John:  Were ALL the parts that got the black semi-gloss/satin final paint (underhood and underbody) were they All primed black first (lacquer?) before the black final coat?   I'd like to understand that better so I can better replicate that factory finish.   The GM reconditioning black specifies thinning *(if necessary) using enamel reducer or mineral spirts, so I'm assuming it's an enamel?  That's the closest thing I've found/used for years (30 yrs or more) to duplicating the 'look'.  I'd be very interested in learning more ..  as much as you can provide to us!
1544  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: my 69 Z being restored on: April 16, 2013, 01:43:45 PM
Motorman?  CLEM?  Is that you?   *S*   
If that area exposed in Jerry's photo is indicative of your entire car (originally), it's definitely the lavendor orchid color!~   and I definitely know that you know what you are talking about.   and I recall you talking about buying a Z28 for your wife at that time....  now that all the pieces are coming together.!

I hope you are doing well, since it's been a few years since I saw you at the Vetteheads tent in Carlisle *S*
Hey!  and that carburetor you rebuilt under the tent is still working great on my '72 (previously mine, then Ed's, and now mine again)....     
 *(although I really had my doubts it would ever work watching you rebuild it and tossing parts that you said..   'Ah we don't need that'..    not to mention the alcohol taht was put away under that tent.. and not even mentioning the strawberrys..  Smiley

1545  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: my 69 Z being restored on: April 16, 2013, 01:36:01 PM
Here's a clear photo with the roof rail track removed from the pillar area showing the original silver color.  Does not look like Evening orchid to me?
Well. that photo under the roof rail *definitely* looks like it was originally the lavendor color!   I have a '69 Corvette in Cortez Silver (the same as the silver color on Camaros), and the cortez silver has NO lavender/pink in it at all!~
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