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1  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Interesting Craigslist Finds on: December 17, 2014, 11:42:47 PM
I've always considered the 'money invested' in a race car as irrelevant.. as those $$ probably bought 3 engines, 4 transmission, and 5 rear ends..   not to mention all the other parts broken in it's racing history.. Smiley
2  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 17, 2014, 03:26:20 PM
I've always believed the 'body tags' are installed onto the bodies by Fisher and are on the car bodys when delivered to the assembly plants...  that goes back to the 50's at least...  If that isn't true, I'd sure like to know the details.. Smiley
3  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: pad stamp? on: December 15, 2014, 10:45:33 AM
how were the decks surfaced on these blocks?  someone said they should have broach marks.  is that right?  how does a broach work compared to today's techniques?

Here's a wiki article for an understanding of the broaching machine and how it works:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broaching_(metalworking)

The type of broaching machine used for the blocks was a linear broach, which machined the block deck in a single pass (from front or rear or rear to front) which leaves fine machining lines running longitudinally (from rear to front) on the deck surface.  Contrast that to the rotary cut marks made by the typical milling machine (rotary) used in machine shops.   When you inspect the front stamp pad (very closely), preferable with some amplification, on an original deck surface you should see fine parallel lines running from under the head and coming straight forward (no angle, no rotary marks).   When a machine shop 'decks' a block, rotary cut marks will be left removing the original broaching marks, and which may or may not (depending on the depth of the cut) remove the original stampings also.  We have some folks on this forum who actually worked for GM or for the Flint or Tonawonda engine plants that hopefully will elaborate (or correct) what I've said here... Smiley

Beware:  There are rumors of stories of people who totally remove the original stampings and broach marks, and 'simulate' the original broach marks for a new (non original) stamping for profit or misrepresentation.  A 'clean fresh new-looking' deck surface would make me suspicious of this.  
4  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Service Engines (CE coded) on: December 14, 2014, 11:38:22 PM
Bryon, here's some data that I've been collecting, it's still very much a work in progress which I will add to.

BB/SB   Block Casting   Casting Date   Pad Stamp   Oil Pan Flange Stamp   Note(s)
Cast 1967
BB                      3916323        F 6 7      CE850140       T087
BB                      3916323        J 8 7      CE853643       T0107
================================================================================
Cast 1968
SB                      3914678        D 16 8      CE922528
SB                      3959512        J 10 8      CE089910
SB                      3959512        K 29 8      CE946309
================================================================================
Cast 1969
SB                      3956618        A 9 9      CE9A24288
SB                      3956618        A 30 9      CE9A32634
SB                      3970010        E 12 9      CE9A98666
BB                      3969854        F 11 9      CE973962
BB                      3969854        H 30 9      CE070400          T099                  Also first stamped T0916KE
SB                      3970010        I 18 9         CE9B442 9 6   warranty repl. for  V0725HX orig eng.
BB                      3969854        J 14 9      CE075672
SB                      3970010        L 8 9      C15408U                         (anomoly; possibly non-factory stamp?)
================================================================================
Cast 1970
SB                      3970010        C 28 0      CE0A48264
SB                      3970010        E 23 0      CE0B00122
SB                      3970010        I 2 0      CE1A94176
SB                      3970010        L 29 0      CEA129749                    (no typo, A before 1, photo available)
================================================================================
Cast 1972
SB                      3970010        A 10 2      CE221365
BB                      3999290        J 23 72      CE361351
================================================================================
Cast 1974
SB                      3970010        F 20 4      CE431334

Table formatting is a bit misaligned, but other members please feel free to add your data to it, by hitting 'quote' and then inserting in the appropriate date order. Thanks!
5  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: The Roundup Man... who rounds up convertibles and corvettes.. :) on: December 13, 2014, 01:39:46 PM
.. Smiley   I noticed that too, Danny.... when one has that much money, the ball goes where you want it to go..  even if it requires editing.. Smiley 
And a neat way to get a Tee time....   spend a few $million on your own course.. Smiley     
6  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 13, 2014, 11:00:21 AM
Definition of 'Pilot Production': 
Production line set up usually during engineering or manufacturing development, to test new methods, processes, and systems.   

Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/pilot-production.html#ixzz3LnHa3bAy

I would guess the 'parts used in the pilot process' came from the factories typically used for the respective parts.
7  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / The Roundup Man... who rounds up convertibles and corvettes.. :) on: December 13, 2014, 10:01:40 AM
It might be a sin to have so  much money you have to do things like this to spend it all...  Smiley

http://youtu.be/iyKk8WrDORc
8  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 13, 2014, 12:35:15 AM
That's a very interesting video.. Smiley .. especially for me as an old (now retired) engineer, depicting technologies that I haven't used in *decades*, and had totally forgotten about...    manual drawings using drawing boards, etc!  slide rules!  IBM tapes; paper tapes; analog computers; digital disk platters! etc... Smiley  ..  ps.  I still love analog computers!!  Smiley

It should also make it very clear the countless engineers in many fields who are involved in 'designing/building/testing' any new automobile for a major company. 

How many engineers do you think are involved in the design and fabrication of the typical reproduction part made for our cars?   one?  two? maybe?    and testing?   what testing?
9  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: pad stamp? on: December 11, 2014, 11:58:33 PM
People can have differing opinions on such matters. 

Although insufficient information/imagery was included to be anything close to 'absolute', I didn't see anything in the presented data that would cause *me* to think it was not an original block and stamping.  Just my opinion.
10  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 1970 Camaro Z28 national press showing car information on: December 11, 2014, 11:54:27 PM
Thank you Kurt!  Smiley

I'm so very glad that this site is informative and fun and not 'nasty'..... as some others might be allowed to deteriorate to.
11  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: if you could go back and redesign the 67/8 .. or that other one, on: December 11, 2014, 11:43:19 PM
I understand what you guys are saying, and there is truth there...  but .. regardless of what the manufacturer does, it is incumbent on the owner/operator to maintain and preserve the vehicle.  I've always kept my vehicles 'clean' from new, even to washing out the wheel wells, and underneath, especially after having driven in nasty conditions (and I'm in the south, so opportunities to drive on salted roads have been very minimal, but I've driven in sandy situations, even on Daytona beach, but I have never failed after driving in situations where the undercarriage (and all it's nooks and cranny's) have opportunities to trap road salts, etc, .. I've always made attempt to *clean* underneath and 'flush out' all the salts and contaminants as soon after as possible.   I've used coin car washes and their high pressure washers much more often for washing underneath and wheel wells than I have for cleaning the top side of a car...

How many of those 'rusted down' cars you've worked on, do you think got treated to that kind of care?   Did the manufacturers PROOF their vehicles so that they'd last 40 or 50 years *regardless* of how they got treated?    No..  and should they have?   No again....  If the owner wants to preserve the things they own, they will..  otherwise..  they won't get preserved regardless of what the manufacturer did.
12  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: if you could go back and redesign the 67/8 .. or that other one, on: December 11, 2014, 02:14:42 PM
In crabby old man voice - "Back in my day we had to walk to school 20 miles up hill both ways in 4 feet of snow!!!"

lol Grin
...  Smiley ..  and.. On skinny tires.... because that was all that was available before 1970...   Smiley
13  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: if you could go back and redesign the 67/8 .. or that other one, on: December 11, 2014, 11:49:15 AM

One major thing if I could go back in time to all the manufacturers would be to increase the wheel well size specifically in the rear, but considering trans am, how about on all 4 corners. Even my 66 chevelle or the early novas , the engineers could have probably had the same cost of assembly and made the inner tubs bigger.

Remember that:

1. "Big tires" didn't exist in the early-to-mid-60's - they were all skinny, for ride comfort.

2. Making the inner rear wheelhouse tubs wider would have compromised the rear seat hip room dimension and reduced the cubic capacity number for the trunk, and those were important in the 60's.

JohnZ...     Some (Or most?) of these guys can't 'remember' that because they weren't around then.. Smiley      THEY think these huge wide tires we have available to us today have always been around....  Smiley
14  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: if you could go back and redesign the 67/8 .. or that other one, on: December 11, 2014, 11:44:52 AM
Better rust protection on sheetmetal.

Personally, I've been pretty impressed by the degree of rust protection Chevy applied to the sheet metal parts.   The ONLY areas on my car which had any rust at all was under the battery (inner fender and frame rail) apparently where battery acid leaked onto the metal parts...  that isn't so bad for 45 years  IMO.. Smiley    (Let's wait another 45 years and see how well the 'restored' cars do... Smiley  )
15  Model Specific Discussions / Trans-Am Camaros / Re: 67 Camaro on: December 10, 2014, 09:27:32 PM
Darrell loves 67's...   Smiley
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