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107587 Posts in 12510 Topics by 4812 Members
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1  Orphans - documentation or VIN-stamped drivetrains - in search of the original cars / 1969 - Orphans / Re: 9N627007, 69 DZ 302 shortblock on: December 20, 2014, 10:49:14 AM
Ronnie,

Our Thanks to you for caring enough to effect the re-uniting... Smiley    It would have been much easier for you to just run a for sale ad on your local Craig's list.. but you made an effort and did something good!  Congratulations!
2  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics on: December 20, 2014, 09:21:13 AM
I understand what you are saying.. and the 'statement of having the POP' certainly addressed most of the 'originality' issues..   but that said, if I viewed the car and inspected it.. and didn't find anything suspicious (ie. I believed it to be an original Z28 with all it's major factory parts), I would not let the lack of the documentation prevent my purchasing it...
3  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: A Friend in Need... on: December 20, 2014, 09:18:34 AM
That's why I'm such a fan of this site, like-minded people who often go the extra mile to help a fellow member.
Glad you got the car with no issues or missing parts Bentley; is that the X22 car?

X22 car? Yes! Thanks Tim, you are one of the great ones here, if I may ad.

 Kiss Oh you hugger orange guys should start your own site..... Lips Sealed

 Cheesy

I thought this one was our site...   Smiley 

lol,  Good one Gary. I knew that one was coming.

Smiley   The JOHO guys need a reminder sometimes....  Smiley

JOHO   = Jealous of Hugger Orange......    Smiley
4  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: A Friend in Need... on: December 19, 2014, 10:46:12 PM
That's why I'm such a fan of this site, like-minded people who often go the extra mile to help a fellow member.
Glad you got the car with no issues or missing parts Bentley; is that the X22 car?

X22 car? Yes! Thanks Tim, you are one of the great ones here, if I may ad.

 Kiss Oh you hugger orange guys should start your own site..... Lips Sealed

 Cheesy

I thought this one was our site...   Smiley 
5  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics on: December 19, 2014, 10:44:32 PM
No POP definitely hurts it

Since 95% do not have POPs at this late date, I'd phrase that differently...    "If it HAD the POP, it would have definitely helped it!".. Smiley
6  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: hello, newbie needs some help decoding on: December 19, 2014, 02:15:50 PM
Using your VIN, we can figure within a day or so of when your car came off the production line, but that can't be done from the information you've provided so far.   The 12D approximate production week would suggest it was planned for late December 1968, and that corresponds fairly well with your BDY NBR.

There's no way to tell what wheels it came with although if it's a true SS that would have established the 'base SS' wheels, although there's options beyond those wheels.   Read the information on the CRG and you will learn *most* of what you need to know pretty quickly...
7  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics on: December 19, 2014, 12:26:27 PM
Good suggestions from Bullitt, but if he has the Protecto plate and it's an original one, and the data matches the car info, then a lot of that is cleared up.   As you stated, drivetrain wise it appears to be a 'real car'.. but make sure you verify that.   Making sure it has a clean title thru the state is a great idea as Bullitt suggests. 

Rather than 'crawling under the car', I'd suggest (assuming the car is driveable) that you ask the owner to either drive the car to a garage or place with a lift and get the car up so you can better inspect all the insides of the fenders, quarters, floor, etc.. as well as the chassis parts, and the trans and rear end codes.   Make sure you take some items with you to help clean off the necessary areas if need be, and take a strong light so you can illuminate sufficiently. 

I like the car (with exception of the rust possibilities...).   I had one just like it back in the early '70's which I traded for my '69...  Smiley
8  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 19, 2014, 10:06:35 AM
Hate to say it, but from my experience solving the problem didn't matter much then and doesn't today either.  It's all about PROCESS and PROTOCOL at the General in many areas....
Try working for the Federal govt.... That's where the saying "Don't make it a federal process" comes from lol. Plenty of the "big fish in little pond syndrome." I can't tell you how many times I've gotten lit up for doing what John did. I still do it though... ;-)

and I did it too, Sarge..  for over 40 years as an engineer ..  but it's not the best means to advance in today's sucking up corporate culture..   Smiley
9  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics on: December 19, 2014, 12:06:17 AM
Light Image Resizer is still the best means of resizing a jpg file with minimal loss of image quality... (at least that I've seen)... it's excellent.
10  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 18, 2014, 11:26:51 PM
and in the 'bigger companies', there's another P involved..  POWER.....   some folks like to show their power.....    ugh..  bah humbug.....  it's the biggest roadblock to people like JohnZ actually solving problems and improving efficiency..  Note that the line worker had no problem..  it was some little asshole 'manager' too big for his britches..  if you equate it to grade school and little league it's that one little asshole taking his ball home....
11  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Intake Date Code on: December 18, 2014, 11:18:13 PM
I picked up a 3931067 intake last night. The intake date code is A319. Jan 31, 69. Would that be too early to be "correct" for a 7/28/69 CJF 396?


It's not impossible, but it's certainly not "typical" to have an intake that pre-dates its usage by seven months.

It's actually a few days shy of 6 months....
12  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Interesting Craigslist Finds on: December 17, 2014, 11:42:47 PM
I've always considered the 'money invested' in a race car as irrelevant.. as those $$ probably bought 3 engines, 4 transmission, and 5 rear ends..   not to mention all the other parts broken in it's racing history.. Smiley
13  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 17, 2014, 03:26:20 PM
I've always believed the 'body tags' are installed onto the bodies by Fisher and are on the car bodys when delivered to the assembly plants...  that goes back to the 50's at least...  If that isn't true, I'd sure like to know the details.. Smiley
14  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: pad stamp? on: December 15, 2014, 10:45:33 AM
how were the decks surfaced on these blocks?  someone said they should have broach marks.  is that right?  how does a broach work compared to today's techniques?

Here's a wiki article for an understanding of the broaching machine and how it works:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broaching_(metalworking)

The type of broaching machine used for the blocks was a linear broach, which machined the block deck in a single pass (from front or rear or rear to front) which leaves fine machining lines running longitudinally (from rear to front) on the deck surface.  Contrast that to the rotary cut marks made by the typical milling machine (rotary) used in machine shops.   When you inspect the front stamp pad (very closely), preferable with some amplification, on an original deck surface you should see fine parallel lines running from under the head and coming straight forward (no angle, no rotary marks).   When a machine shop 'decks' a block, rotary cut marks will be left removing the original broaching marks, and which may or may not (depending on the depth of the cut) remove the original stampings also.  We have some folks on this forum who actually worked for GM or for the Flint or Tonawonda engine plants that hopefully will elaborate (or correct) what I've said here... Smiley

Beware:  There are rumors of stories of people who totally remove the original stampings and broach marks, and 'simulate' the original broach marks for a new (non original) stamping for profit or misrepresentation.  A 'clean fresh new-looking' deck surface would make me suspicious of this.  
15  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Service Engines (CE coded) on: December 14, 2014, 11:38:22 PM
Bryon, here's some data that I've been collecting, it's still very much a work in progress which I will add to.

BB/SB   Block Casting   Casting Date   Pad Stamp   Oil Pan Flange Stamp   Note(s)
Cast 1967
BB                      3916323        F 6 7      CE850140       T087
BB                      3916323        J 8 7      CE853643       T0107
================================================================================
Cast 1968
SB                      3914678        D 16 8      CE922528
SB                      3959512        J 10 8      CE089910
SB                      3959512        K 29 8      CE946309
================================================================================
Cast 1969
SB                      3956618        A 9 9      CE9A24288
SB                      3956618        A 30 9      CE9A32634
SB                      3970010        E 12 9      CE9A98666
BB                      3969854        F 11 9      CE973962
BB                      3969854        H 30 9      CE070400          T099                  Also first stamped T0916KE
SB                      3970010        I 18 9         CE9B442 9 6   warranty repl. for  V0725HX orig eng.
BB                      3969854        J 14 9      CE075672
SB                      3970010        L 8 9      C15408U                         (anomoly; possibly non-factory stamp?)
================================================================================
Cast 1970
SB                      3970010        C 28 0      CE0A48264
SB                      3970010        E 23 0      CE0B00122
SB                      3970010        I 2 0      CE1A94176
SB                      3970010        L 29 0      CEA129749                    (no typo, A before 1, photo available)
================================================================================
Cast 1972
SB                      3970010        A 10 2      CE221365
BB                      3999290        J 23 72      CE361351
================================================================================
Cast 1974
SB                      3970010        F 20 4      CE431334

Table formatting is a bit misaligned, but other members please feel free to add your data to it, by hitting 'quote' and then inserting in the appropriate date order. Thanks!
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