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1  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Muscle Car and Corvette Nationals Nov 23 & 24 on: April 08, 2014, 11:07:04 AM
that car is a clone of the 69 Baldwin Motion Camaro he bought new and was stolen a short time later

It was an original triple black car with white stripe and was used in the 1969 Motion ads

Well that car follows the rule of white stripe with v top then, if it were in original paint in that ad. That's counter to how my car was striped (i.e. red).
2  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Muscle Car and Corvette Nationals Nov 23 & 24 on: April 07, 2014, 11:14:15 AM
1969 Baldwin Motion Phase III Camaro's

Does anyone know more about the triple black Baldwin conversion car? My car is triple black with red stripe, and I noticed this one is with a white stripe.
I have to wonder if that car was a true triple black car or not...

3  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 1969 BLACK 396 cars got a different black tail panel paint than the body on: December 21, 2011, 05:56:17 PM
"Other stuff on gloss:  there was a 69 L89 camaro there being judged as a survivor (dark green, paint was really rough on the body).  The tail panel had the same gloss as mine (80-85 %).  Super shiney.  Same orange peel."

As mentioned above. I think I have come across a dark green Fathom Green 57 code to be exact car where the black out tail pan has a gloss to it.



I saw that green L89 car this past summer being judged, and the paint on my tail panel matched that car.  I think the only thing repainted on that car was the front drivers fender.  paint was rough.  tail panel had orange peel and was about 80-85% gloss.

As far as my car, the original owner to my car came to the show.  he said he only used hand waxing on it, and I myself never took a machine to it.  Just hand waxing.  You can strip the wax off on the tail panel and its still shiney.

I plan to finally get those pictures of the motion car downloaded and posted here this next week.  Had them stuck in an old iphone. Those pictures will back up the shine aspect (85%) and the orange peel galore.

When I see some of these restored cars, with flat paint looking tail panels, they are just wrong. 

-bob

4  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 1969 BLACK 396 cars got a different black tail panel paint than the body on: December 21, 2011, 02:12:01 AM
hey george and mike, thanks for the compliments. Had a great time at that show, meeting camaro folks. yes, once someone sees the tape lines on the other side of the weather strip inside the trunk, its pretty obvious.

So far the unrestored Motion 427 car (converted from an L78) and mine are 2 examples (vintage/survivor display or vintage/survivor judged in front of a lot of folks), and no one has stepped up with a black survivor 'without' the tape lines yet to counter any of this.

Someday.....the rules for black painted tail panels will change, I hope....making all my insanity worth it.  Definitely stuck my neck out there.

-bob
5  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: LA/Norwood shipping on: July 18, 2011, 05:25:34 PM
as far as the S&H green stamps, my black 69 still has a bunch in the glove box still and and in the console (with vintage matchbooks). but I already know which wisconsin dealer my norwood car was shipped to, so I guess I have no mystery to solve with my S&H greenstamps.  darn.

On a serious note, a friend of mine has a car that was found 10 miles from baldwin chevrolet (orange 69 ss/rs L78), and its a october built LA built car.  That boggles my mind, that something shipped cross country to be used so far out east.  I guess it happened.  Car is in the midwest now.
6  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: daytona yellow with yellow interior and tire chain on: July 17, 2011, 10:26:30 PM
Kurt, I will send you the info on the local car and another car to add to your 40+ total.
7  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: daytona yellow with yellow interior and tire chain on: July 15, 2011, 09:19:27 PM
As seeing other cars, I was at a car show last night and a guy had a restoration photoalbum of his camaro sitting on his radiator.  I looked at his pictures, and it was originally a yellow yellow car.  I checked the tag and it was coded for yellow houndstooth.

I do wish I had a clue how many yellow interiors were made and for how long. It is pretty bold. white is one thing, that yellow is really in your face loud. 

rare is one thing, desirable is another.  I am not sure yet on how I feel about it. It is different no doubt.


8  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / daytona yellow with yellow interior and tire chain on: July 15, 2011, 04:47:11 PM
looking at car that is yellow yellow w/ black top
liquid tire chain option (documented)

how rare is the yellow combo?  I dont think its that rare as I have spotted a few of these in the past. but have no clue.

how many documented liquid tire chain cars are out there? how does this even work or get turned on from the drivers perspective?

bob
9  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Yenko ZL1 427 on: July 12, 2011, 02:10:41 PM
There were a bunch of different Yenko alu blocks. Some had "YENKO" in block letters cast in, some had a Yenko crest cast in, some had no Yenko ID, some had water jacket, some were solid blocks, and other different designs. They were used in boats, drag, sprint, road racing etc. They were also working on an alu V6 but don't know if that project was completed.

I believe there were at least two different companys used for casting and two different companys used for machining as Yenko changed the vendors over the years.

Warren D., the Yenko employee who as original paperwork from Yenko Chev, has a bunch of stuff on the alu blocks. Mark G. is working on putting this into together for a new book. They have receipts showing some big names in all forms of racing.
He has receipts for A J Foyt, Pat Musi and others

I have some pictures, Yenko ads, and old magazine articles on engine builds using Yenko blocks.
  


How could I learn more about who Mark G is and how do I get some insight on who got those blocks?  I have a 052 casting by yenko (stamped letters in the timing cover area only, no crests and no dates, no snowflake).  Bill Porterfield and Ed Cunneen have helped me a lot already, but sounds like there are more records out there?









10  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 1969 BLACK 396 cars got a different black tail panel paint than the body on: June 30, 2011, 07:53:20 AM
steve, thanks for stating that.  I do know Kurt was giving my car some recognition too. It would be nice to get the site updated for those doing black SS 396 car restorations, survivor judging, etc. 2 survivor cars vs no other survivor cars proving otherwise (I would love to know where one of those cars are), seems to make a strong case for an update.  With 2% of the SS 396s being black, it is going to be rare to find another data point. 

I did put myself in the painters position, and did look at this another way.  How would I know the paint is really flat or not? Its in a gun. All I know is its tail panel paint for SS396 cars.  But by being the painter, I had to maintain the gun to paint tail panels, I would know it would be a different paint, or has the flattening agent in it. So there is the easy answer, that painter knew it had a flattening agent in it, and thus it is different that the 100% gloss tuxedo black body.  We all may have been looking at this from a finished product perspective, but you have to put yourself in the painters position to come to what really happened.  He knew that tail panel paint has some flattening aspect to it. No doubt in my mind.
11  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 1969 BLACK 396 cars got a different black tail panel paint than the body on: June 29, 2011, 02:43:37 PM
Updating the thread:

I had my car (triple black L78) at the survivor show in st charles IL this past sunday (same place they hold bloomington gold for the corvettes) and had my car's tail panel looked at by a judge.  He is also a judge that owns a yenko and is his opinions are well respected.  I finally felt like I am at a turning point when someone with a reputation finally saw what I have seen and believe in.

Anyways he saw the masking paint lines in the trunk (that run 45 degrees off the corners), continues into the trunk on the other side of the seal, and luckily the tail panel was in full sunlight (11-12am), southern exposure.  He saw it was a different shade of black as the body (in the area by the tail lights), and he confirmed my car was original paint (he does not doubt that).  It was the perfect setting, as natural sunlight really shows the paint difference (flourescent lighting does not, and that is what you have at car shows or in a restoration shop).

Every little bit helps to get the site updated with the truth:  black ss 396 cars DID get their tail panels painted a different shade of black (than the body).  There continues to be my car and the black 69 motion 427 survivor car out there that has been to a few high profile shows. I feel I have done the detective work providing 2 cars with same exact details matching each other, vins are not same day vins so it dispells any notion of the wrong gun being picked up.  Judging is the only way to close this chapter. To me my car should have the mometum (finally) to draw more judges into it now that ONE believes in it. Car has its original trunk seal and brown alignment dot, there is no signs of a tail panel being repainted anywhere.  He could not find any traces of anything in the trunk area to not be original anywhere. 

Other stuff on gloss:  there was a 69 L89 camaro there being judged as a survivor (dark green, paint was really rough on the body).  The tail panel had the same gloss as mine (80-85 %).  Super shiney.  Same orange peel.


12  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Engine value to Z28 owner on: November 24, 2010, 01:54:43 AM
I myself would not give anyone any hi res pictures of the original engine , unless they are serious about buying it.  I doubt everyone knows how to create the broach marks and characters on a block, so why give up the treasure map.  If he does not want to consider the block, just call it a day and follow the path of 'less is more'. You have to consider he could replicate that block if you never come to an agreement. My 2 cents.
13  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 1969 BLACK 396 cars got a different black tail panel paint than the body on: November 24, 2010, 12:10:46 AM
Here is a picture of my car, that shows the paint difference relative to the body.  It only shows this tone difference in direct sunlight (which is how I discovered all of this in the first place).  Get the car out of direct sunlight beating down on it, and it just goes un-noticed, and it blends in perfectly with the black body paint. Somebody has to know what that paint mix formula is.



my car



here's a picture of the tail of the baldwin car, care of someone else.  I have more photos on my new phone and will post once I download them (they show just the orange peel, did not get the paint shadow lines). 



14  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 1969 BLACK 396 cars got a different black tail panel paint than the body on: November 23, 2010, 02:54:28 PM
I see a milky line at about a 45 degree angle, is that what you mean?

Yes! join my fan club!
15  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 1969 BLACK 396 cars got a different black tail panel paint than the body on: November 23, 2010, 02:52:26 PM
Charley, I wish you could have gone and looked at that black car too.  I saw that green 67 car (this is when I asked the SCWs folks looking at it to go look at the black car).  

I looked at that car, and what appeared different between that non 69 car and the 2 black 69s was the amount of orange peel.  

I think for now, I have 2 nails ready to go in the coffin for the painted tail panel topic for a black car.  But here is a another potential nail to consider (orange peel cound prove a second coat was applied?):

Orange peel is defined as 'too much paint' or 'non ideal painting technique' if you look at the definition of that term.  These 2 black cars I am refering to have it pretty bad, there has to be an explanation for it (my speculation there is a second full paint coat).  

As a side note: If I were a judge of an original paint car, and it landed between a 600K to 660K VIN, I would expect to see some form of orange peel on the tail for a SS 396 car.  I would ponder if I did not see it. Its like once you see the defects left behind on a hockey stripe done with an original stencil. Once you see that, you wonder about cars you don't see it on. That other black car made 60K units before mine, had all the same stripe aspects which was so cool to see.





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