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105671 Posts in 12339 Topics by 4754 Members
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46  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Stripe delete on: May 21, 2014, 05:26:25 AM
The maroon 68 convertible with the white interior?  That one is clearly paint, but of course its originality has always been questioned.

47  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Stripe delete on: May 20, 2014, 05:48:30 AM
Those aren't really stripe deletes, they were stripes that were cancelled before they made it into production.  The D88 was probably just a little to labor intensive in a production environment, as each stripe would have had to have been masked off 5 times to paint all the different colors, and keeping track of the various stripe colors that went with the car body colors would have been a nightmare for the paint shop..
48  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Look what my wife brought home for me just now. on: May 13, 2014, 11:21:09 AM
40K on  97?  Do you have about 30 daily drivers?  My newest is a 2000 Cadillac STS and it has 206000 on it and I add about 30K a year.  I'm driving that until the wheels fall of it (which will probably be in the next 12 months).  Then to show you what a glutton for punishment I am, I'm getting an 03 or 04 Range Rover.  Need something to tow the boat, and i need to brush up on my electrical troubleshooting skills, so we'll give a British car a go, plus they plummet in value worse than the Cadillacs do after about 6 years so you can get one relatively cheaply.

Wife has a 2010 Toyota with 34K on it, although her comute is only 6 miles each way, and i won't drive it.
49  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Look what my wife brought home for me just now. on: May 12, 2014, 03:58:04 PM
Some lumber tipping over or someone turning around with a 4 by 4 on their shoulder while someone was loading it into there car or truck.  Is that a horizontal scuff mark running from the dent across the tail light where wharever it was continued on its way to the ground.
50  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Stripe delete on: May 09, 2014, 01:11:04 PM
So excluding a special order color which obviously warrents a "-" on the cowl tag, what does Fisher do to a non Z28 car tub thats different on a "-" (or early "Z") coded car on a stripe deletion?  Obviously on a Z28 they don't paint the rear stripes, nor do they paint the Cowl stripes.  On a BB they could delete the tail panel blackout.

They don't have the front fenders, valance  or the hood, so nothing from the doors forward can be affected by info on the cowl tag, and the physical tag is nowhere near these complenents when they are assembled and painted on the GM side.

Whats left?
51  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Stripe delete on: May 09, 2014, 11:26:21 AM
If it was before Jan of 68 it would have had "Z-Z" or in this case "Z-2".  But its a June built car.

Why would a corvette bronze car have a Z-Z (british green) code on it when Corvette bronze was not a standard Camaro color until January of 68, and when it was added it is code O?  British racing green also was one of those colors added in January of 68 when Black, Fathom blue, Grecian Geen and Palermo Ivory were deleted, and Rallye Green, Corvette Bronze, Lemans Blue, and Britsh Green got added?  Codes J,O,U and Z didn't exist as a Camaro paint code before 1/68.

Were talking the L78 with the - paint code above in reply 56.  Think we have a couple of converstions crossing over one another here.

Can't explain why yours has a special paint code on the tag, you seem to have a standard Lemans Blue car (we sure its lemans blue and not some other GM special order blue color?).  There are two blue colors on your car from the cowl tag picture, one darker than the other.  Is it paint fade, or is there another color under the current color?



If we follow the general rule that GM didn't use the Fisher cowl tag for anything and the front end stripes were painted by GM off line in the sheetmetal and paint booth no where near the cowl tag.
52  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Stripe delete on: May 08, 2014, 05:54:00 AM
If it was built before January of 68 Corvette Bronze would have been a special order paint color.
53  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Stripe delete on: May 07, 2014, 03:30:03 PM
If the original owner of your car didn't order full wheel covers (car came with dog dish wheel covers) then your wheels wold have been painted body color by the factory.  Again this occurred off line and nowhere near the car.  All the wheel line knoew was car number X (build order number for that day) called for standard (or XT, or Rally, etc) and the car was going to be Y color.  Rallys were easy, they were all argent silver.  All the others they would have to get the paint color off the broadcast sheet.  5 wheels at a time came down the line (unless there was a space saver which must have created some kind of havoc) and were were painted as required, then they were baked off and tires installed.  Again there was several tire options.  Keeping them all straight, getting the right color wheels onto the right tires and keeping the groups in order from one end of the line till they got to the car was an exercise in organization and control, nothing happened by chance in an assembly plant.  If the wheels got painted the wrong color, or had the wrong tires mounted they probably wouldn't find that out until the final inspection of the car, and they wouldn't repaint the wheels, they would just get a new set made, and send the wrong ones back to be broken down and reused.
54  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Stripe delete on: May 07, 2014, 11:57:19 AM
The first part of that wasn't directed soley at you or your coments just a long winded explanation of what the tag codes meant, and who saw them.  And yes the deletion of a panel blackout on a big block would probably have resulted in a special paint instruction code on the tag.  Now the second part might be.

You see the guys in the Sheetmetal assembly and paint shop on GMs side of the plant NEVER actually saw the trim tag, or the car itself.  they just got sets of front end sheetmetal, off the line, they welded the inner frames to the fenders, punched emblem holes in them, and painted them based soley on the info on the Body Broadcast sheets that came off the printer.  From there they went out to the final assembly line for installation on the body by a whole other group of UAW gus (and gals).  They (the GM paint booth guys) never saw the cowl tag or the body tub, and would have no idea what they said on them.  Bumblee bee, and the other front end stripes were all painted in the GM paint booth after the body color but before the front end sheetmetal was bolted together.  The 67 fender line pinstripes, and the 69 D96 stripes were painted after the front end was assembled onto the tup on the final assembly line.  But those weren't code onto the Fisher Tag anyways.
55  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Stripe delete on: May 07, 2014, 11:56:01 AM
The first part of that wasn't directed soley at you or your coments just a long winded explanation of what the tag codes meant, and who saw them.  Now the second part might be.

You see the guys in the Sheetmetal assembly and paint shop on GMs side of the plant NEVER actually saw the trim tag, or the car itself.  they just got sets of front end sheetmetal, off the line, they welded the inner frames to the fenders, punched emblem holes in them, and painted them based soley on the info on the Body Broadcast sheets that came off the printer.  From there they went out to the final assembly line for installation on the body by a whole other group of UAW gus (and gals).  They (the GM paint booth guys) never saw the cowl tag or the body tub, and would have no idea what they said on them.  Bumblee bee, and the other front end stripes were all painted in the GM paint booth after the body color but before the front end sheetmetal was bolted together.  The 67 fender line pinstripes, and the 69 D96 stripes were painted after the front end was assembled onto the tup on the final assembly line.  But those weren't code onto the Fisher Tag anyways.
56  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Stripe delete on: May 07, 2014, 10:52:21 AM
The 0-0 paint code (or 0-1 (2 or 4) for convertibles) was a special paint instruction code for the 67s in the PNT area of the cowl tag.  The - - - for 68 and - - for 69 (all could have a letter code in the last dash for a vinyl or convertible top color) were special paint instruction codes for 68 and 69.  Note the word instruction.  The code didn't tell the assemblers anything about what color, or if it was a stripe deletion, or if it was going to receive a show finsh, it was just a code to clue the FISHER paint line that there were special paint requirments for this car.  The actual requirements were on a peice of paper that accompanied the car, or were on hand at the paint booth.  The - or - and a number at the bottom of the tag were indicative of an FSO (fleet or Special Order) number.  The two have nothing to do with each other, unless the FSO had a special order or show finish paint associated with it, in which case you would have 0's or -'s in the PNT section and an FSO number at the bottom.

If you think GM cared about either dash on the tag, and used it to delete stripes, or paint a stripe a different color, or even paint the front end a non standard color then your going to have to explain to me how they saw the tag when the rear half of the car was on the Trim engine or Chassis assembly line when the Front sheetmetal was being painted in the paint booth in two separate areas of the plant.  The first time the front end sheetmetal came together with the body tub was in the final assembly line after the engine and running rear was already installed.  They did it with the Body Broadcast sheets.  My opinion, not documented fact.
57  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Stripe delete on: May 07, 2014, 06:00:07 AM
Z28's would show the "-" special paint code on the cowl tag so that Fisher wouldn't paint the trunck stripes, but all other stripes we GM's to paint and they didn't use any of the codes on Fishers tag to determine what options went on the car.  Heck the front end wasn't even near the rear body tub when it was painted, it was in a separate paint booth, and was never near the body until it was installed.

If he's got an L78 with a dash paint code it has to have been be a non standard color originally, or a color paint that was discontinued earlier in the model year.
58  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Stripe delete on: May 05, 2014, 04:32:16 PM
A D90/D91 stripe deletion would never show on the cowl tag, and also probably not show on the window sticker as there was no cost associated with it.  I'm guessing that it would have to have been on the GM body braodcast sheet down at the bottom saying something like stripe delete, or do not paint nose stripe.  I've only seen one body broadcast sheet for a 67 PC that had those kinds of notes, and it just said something like pace car paint per FSO sheet (they were part of an FSO (fleet and special order) where as a stripe delete car could not necessarily have an FSO number.

The body broadcast sheet is the build sheet, or atleast half of them, as there was a chassis build sheet as well.  All items on it were for GM's work on the car.
59  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Stripe delete on: May 05, 2014, 11:50:52 AM
Bumble bee Stripe deletion wouldn't be on the cowl tag, becasue Fisher didn't paint the front end sheet metal.  GM must have covered that in their Body Broadcast sheet with some kind of note about not painting the nose stripes, and or the pinstripes along the top of the fenders that the RS's got.
60  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Stripe delete on: May 05, 2014, 09:04:38 AM
Paint codes on the window sticker would have been 1001AA for a no charge special paint, all the way up to a 1001HA paint code for the most expensive paint.  Nowhere on the window sticker would it tell you what the special paint color was.  The 0-0 special paint code would clue the paint booth to check the associated paperwork for the car to get the color to be used, and it was typically sprayed from a hand held pressure pot in the paint booth, unless the car was part of a fleet order of about 50 or more cars that would justify filling one of the paint systems in the booth with that color paint.

The "-" code after the 5th option group means the car is part of a fleet order.  Not all of the tags in a single special order would contain the FSO number (for some reason, never figured out yet), maybe every 10th car got the full number.  Ex the 67 pace cars have a fleet order of -061 (one of a few numbers), but theres plenty of them that just have a single "-" in that location.  If the car was a one off FSO order car, it would have the complete FSO number after the dash.  But the "-" FSO designator after the 5th option group really has nothingto do with the special paint code.  You could get a special paint car without having an FSO number.
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