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106499 Posts in 12421 Topics by 4787 Members
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391  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 67 Pace cars on: February 27, 2007, 09:01:43 PM
    "Chevrolet NEVER intended for that car to be a L78. NEVER."

   Read the above posted GM documents. They called out for it in the GM work order for it to be built as a L78 car and it was. Just because the work order then calls for it to be converted  to a L35 it still started out and was built as a L78.

  "The first and only Real 4K pacecar is the #3 car Period"  My car is a 4P car as is Grumpys car. Now are yoiu going to say Grumpys car is not a L78 because it has a 4P trim tag like my car ? I have no facts concerning a 3rd Pace car and never stated I did. A L78  Pace car driving around the track has nothing to do with my car and the # 2 car being built as L78's.

392  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 67 Pace cars on: February 27, 2007, 08:01:38 PM
Per Al Young...Vince Piggins told him a 3rd Pace car was never built. You may have found a L78 Pace car but not one that was prepped to pace the race.

  "Many years ago when Dan Young discovered that the #3 car had been found still intact….
That is the time he decided to sell his "
   That is just silly and just posted to tell tall tales. When I met Al Young they had sold the dealership and Dan had retired to Florida. Al was storing the car and they no longer needed it. Your audacity to tell a lie that Dan Young decided to sell the Pace car because a 3rd Pace car had been found should be offensive to everyone. Do you think that if a backup Pace car had been found it has any effect on the car that actually paced the race ? There are many pics of the Dan Young car pacing the race. There are none of your mystical car pacing the race so why would that make Dan Young  want to sell his car ? GM engineering converted the car into the L35, not the assembly line. The assembly line built it and shipped it with a L78.

  "Maybe it was delivered with no drivetrain ? " Does anyone reading this thread that has seen the paperwork really believe this statement is anything more than someone trying to spread mis-information ?

[Response to other removed content removed by Rich...]
393  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / 67 Pace cars on: February 27, 2007, 05:20:35 PM
[Content removed by Rich...]

Jeff says the 2 Pace cars did not leave the factory with L78's so they are not L78's. They were built as L78's and I have the GM work order calling for them to be built as L78's. The work order then called for them to be deliverd to Chevrolet's engineering department. Then it calls for them to change the powertrain combination from "as delivered status" to RPO L35-M40.
  The above GM statement should settle any outlandish debate as to how they were delivered. They were delivered as L78-4 speeds. That was the "as delivered status". It was delivered to the engineering department as a L78.  The protecto-plate for my Pace car is for a L78 4 speed. Where Jeff tries to draw the line as to what the car was built as is simply to try to lessen what the car is because he has a problem with me. He also states there were 20 L78 Camaro's built before the Pace cars. Really ? Is there any fact to this or is he just making stuff up ? Does CRG have any info on these 20 L78 Camaro's built before the Pace cars ? If anyone thinks Jeff has made his posts because he really believes they were not L78 cars I would sure like to hear it.
 In regards to the discussion as to Grumpys car being the first L78 I will still assume the Pace cars were first based on the build date on the trim tags being a week earlier and the vins being about 2400 cars earlier.
  It would be nice to hear the CRG opinion or other members opinions.
394  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 1967 396 on: February 25, 2007, 05:38:25 PM
 You are stating the obvious. I have no idea why Chevrolet built 375 hp Pace cars but I know they did.  All data I have so far indicates the Pace cars were built before Grumpys car. I'm just trying to figure this out but you seem to want to keep your info secret. We all know Grumpy was a important guy but we also know that Chevrolet was already building and using high hp big blocks in other models. I also have no doubt that Grumpy was working with Chevrolet on stuff but your statement that there would be no 375HP Camaro without Grumpy is just plain stupid. Do you think really think that even though Chevrolet had a low hp 396 in a Camaro they would never put a high hp 396 in it without Grumpy ? Amazing.
  I won't mind if it is proven that Grumpys car was a earlier built L78 but it would be nice to have facts and not just drag racing history.
395  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: X11 z/28 on ebay?? on: February 24, 2007, 04:33:54 PM
Reserve is not met so assume it is a shill bid of 100K . He does not say Jerry looked at it. He says Jerry certified one other X11 car.  Nice rear bumper guards.
396  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 1967 396 on: February 23, 2007, 02:21:42 PM
   So far I have my car as a 03C car and Grumpys car as a 03D car. I also have my vin being about 2400 cars earlier. I don't have Grumpys body # to compare but I would assume that a 2400 car spread in the vin and 03C versus 03D would put my car earlier. I also would assume that GM doing their Pace car program would have more importance to them than getting a car to a outside drag racer.  It might be that my Pace car and the backup Pace car were the first built L78's  but the Grumpy car was the first built to be sold to the public.
   I also have a very hard time believing that Vince Piggins and Chevrolet couldn't come up with a 375 hp Camaro if ut were not for Grumpy. I don't want to discount any of Grumpys accomplishments but the statement that Chevrolet would never have done a 375 hp Camaro if not for Grumpy is very hard to swallow.
397  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 1967 396 on: February 23, 2007, 12:43:55 AM
What is the vin on Grumpys car ? I made my statement based on KurtS saying my Pace Car was built before Grumpys car. Until he told me that I had never paid any attention to just how early my car was. If I'm incorrect in my statement I would like to get it cleared up.
398  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 1967 396 on: February 21, 2007, 09:57:00 AM
My pace car is a 03C car and I think Grumpys car was about a month later.
399  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Vinyl or Not? on: February 19, 2007, 10:54:09 PM
Here is my green L89 with a green vinyl top...
400  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: "Camaro" by Cyrkle on: February 19, 2007, 10:14:19 AM
Wierd...I just sold that record on Ebay yesterday....,1
401  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Recommendation for Radiator and Electric Fans for Big Block on: February 14, 2007, 09:52:02 AM
The Lincoln Mark VIII fan is the best I have ever used. I have two in cars now. There are other sources for the fan but I found this one on Ebay and posted the link. They move about 4500 CFM. This fan with virtually any big block rtadiator and you should be fine.
402  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Recommendation for Radiator and Electric Fans for Big Block on: February 14, 2007, 09:48:41 AM
403  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: camaro with a slide back sun roof on: February 11, 2007, 10:45:10 AM
I used to own a 70 Z28 called the Hurst Sunshine special that had a slide backvinyl sunroof. It was done by Hurst for GM as a test to see if they wanted to produce it. I think later it was a option on Buicks ?
404  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Barrett-Jackson lawsuit on: February 09, 2007, 02:08:35 AM
Interesting blog from someone who is in the know.

About Me

Name: Rick Carey

Auctions Editor of Car Collector and Victory Lane magazines. Reporting on the collector car auction market since 1991. Editor of Car Collector's Online Market Journal For more see

His blog this subject:

Friday, February 02, 2007

The Barrett-Jackson Rumor Mill, Again

It’s no wonder Craig Jackson sometimes acts paranoid. How many times does Barrett-Jackson have to deal with uninformed rumors?

We’re still putting down the “the Futurliner didn’t sell for $4 million” stories, a year after the $3,680,000 (that’s the $4 million hammer bid less the 8% seller’s commission) wire transfer landed in Montreal.

This week it was “did you hear about the class action against B-J? It’s all over the Internet.”

Well, no I hadn’t, so I went looking.

I found someone named Sam Barer’s posting on his blog. A wide-ranging rant, it started off by accusing B-J of fraud (“some hobbyists are claiming a worst [sic]: fraud”), which must have gotten Mr. Jackson’s attention. Then there it was, Barer says someone “has filed papers with the court” and “this is already being discussed as translating into class-action status.”

Sam claims to be “a collector car journalist” who has “been watching the Barrett-Jackson auction for years.”

From reading his rambling posting it didn’t even appear that he was at B-J, much less on the block where he might have become aware of what goes on there so to find out I called the phone number for his company’s “Business Office.”

I reached Sam at home.

Not only wasn’t Sam at Barrett-Jackson this year, he’s never been to Barrett-Jackson at all. He has been “watching the Barrett-Jackson auction” though. On SPEED Channel. He watched the whole thing, he said – except for the parts he missed. And he “knows people” who’ve bought and sold cars at Barrett-Jackson.

When pressed, Sam admitted that he didn’t know if a suit had been filed. He further allowed that the “class action” was complete conjecture.

This is pathetic. Barrett-Jackson (and Craig Jackson and even Keith Martin who came in for his share of Barer-bashing) has been taking flack from someone who hasn’t any firsthand knowledge of what went on at Barrett-Jackson in 2007 (or any other year). He’s just dishing out recirculated rumors, then piling surmise and conjecture on top of them.

Barrett-Jackson has now issued a statement dealing with Mr. Barer’s rumors and surmise. The statement is clear, concise and factual, unlike the rambling rant that prompted it.

In the case of the lawsuit/class action rumor, there is no “there” there.

Craig Jackson isn’t the one who is paranoid.
Rick Carey
February 2, 2007

Labels: barrett-jackson, collector car auction

posted by Rick Carey at 3:12 PM 0 comments
405  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Cowl Tags from the B-J on: February 05, 2007, 12:29:36 AM
Rear axle was not a restamp.. I don't remember if the trans was but the engine and rear were orig. Trans might have been  orig. but I just don't remember.
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