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97134 Posts in 11686 Topics by 4578 Members
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1  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Block crayon marks on: March 29, 2014, 12:10:45 AM
I have a 6,000 mile 70 Z28 engine and CTB can clearly be seen both sides of the block . I too have seen DZ on 302.
2  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Rear brake cable bracket. on: March 06, 2014, 07:55:02 PM
Thats the Correct Bracket
3  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: connecting rod reconditioning on: March 01, 2014, 01:50:03 AM
Yeah, I looked it up in the P&A and the 67 350 DID use dimple rods! I didn't realize that. I thought they were like 68 and 69 which DIDN'T use dimple rods. I've deleted my original post.

Ed


Yes they sure puzzled me the first time I saw a set, VERY Rare. I personally would use the later 3/8" bolt "pink" rod to gain bolt strength and better rod material, especially if it is a original stamp block.

Then again, the '67's are small journal, no "pinks" until medium journal '68-9, right ?

Regards,
Steve

No, All 1967 SS350,s are Large journal with 11/32 bolt large journal rods, the 327 was a small journal engine, same as the 302 for that year. Early 68 Z28 used the non shotpeened rod pressed pin, later production 68 used the shotpeened rod with floating pin same as all 69 302DZ.
4  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: connecting rod reconditioning on: February 28, 2014, 11:41:12 AM
Yeah, I looked it up in the P&A and the 67 350 DID use dimple rods! I didn't realize that. I thought they were like 68 and 69 which DIDN'T use dimple rods. I've deleted my original post.

Ed


Yes they sure puzzled me the first time I saw a set, VERY Rare. I personally would use the later 3/8" bolt "pink" rod to gain bolt strength and better rod material, especially if it is a original stamp block.
5  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: connecting rod reconditioning on: February 28, 2014, 11:16:52 AM
"Dimple" rods weren't used on the 67 350, but to answer your question, yes you can overdo anything.

Ed


Sorry Ed but 1967 Camaro 350 rods WERE Dimple, they are very unique in that they used the 11/32 bolt same as the small journal rod, and to clarify they had a raised dimple just under the wristpin area on both side, same as a L78 rod. in the last 40 years I have taken apart and overhauled 3 known original SS350 Camaro engines and they all had them. Very hard to find rods and only used in 1967.
6  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Picture of 69 z top of engine wanted on: February 13, 2014, 06:00:39 PM
I've seen one on an 06A car.

My 06A has the fuel line clip, build date is June 18? and the shipping date is June 22 or 23?, if I remember correctly. Canadian Docs Z28. It says "Stamp Rite" on it, its black, not phospahate, never been off the fuel line.
No PCV clip, in fact NEVER seen one on a Z, just L78 as posted.
7  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: trim ring fit to rim on: January 31, 2014, 02:38:41 PM
Gary, I have a real collection of GM Master Parts Catalogues, Camaro, Corvette,Nova,Chevelle,Vega,Firebird etc.,  The girl friend worked at a Local GM Dealer, she holds a licensed Journey man parts certificate, and still retains the Grp. part numbers/sections by memory. I got a lot of these when GM went computerized. The Camaro parts catalogue is 741A dated August/1974. I also have 751A, dated Sept/1975, 761A dated Jan/1978 and others I acquired when I ran a Corvette/Camaro Restoration shop for 20 yrs.
 In Grp. # 5.871 of the Camaro 741A it shows # 3901708, the 751A shows # 9796696 as do the others. I also scanned the Chevelle Part page. Interesting to note it shows for 70-73 Monte Carlo # 9796696 as having 4 clips. 


Good information, thanks. It would be interesting if they noted the  part# change for the 14" trim rings since we know the chevelle used the 4 clip in 1969 and changed to the inner serrated in 1970.

Steve, I will look tonite.
8  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: trim ring fit to rim on: January 31, 2014, 02:33:55 PM
It's confusing to me WHY that part number (# 3901708 shows up in a '74 catalog), when it doesn't appear in the Oct 1, 1970 P&A that I have??   Ask your girlfriend (wife now?.. Smiley   if errors in those printed catalogs were common??  I sure wish someone had a 1969 dated parts manual, as that might clear up some of the questions we have re PNs..

It's also interesting to me that Jims69 posted that he bought 4 from GM in mid seventies that had the four inner serrated 'teeth' type of retainers.  I've never liked or used that type, and didn't really know that GM mfg'd them....?   Those are the type that are reproduced in the inexpensive trim rings by companies like Wheel Vintiques.


Gary, Is the P&A book you have a GM Master Parts catalogue just for Camaro? The Chevelle #39 JPG page is from a April/76  Chevelle GM Master parts Book. Dont know why 2 books would/could? be wrong?

Corvette also used the same 4 clip trim ring in 1967, later issue Corvette Parts Book 14A dated Jan/1981 shows # 9796696 as the part number but I know I have a much earlier issue parts book at home, will check it tonite and repost. Guy I work/restore cars for has 1 of the lowest mile 67 Corvette 427/435HP know to exist, 6,000 miles, it was in the Corvette Bowling Green Museum and has documentation from NCRS, Bloomington Gold Special Collection as well as Zora Duntov as the Best Unmolested example known to Exist, it has the 4 clip trim rings, which are supposed to be the same as 1969 Z28, they are identical to the ones on my car, valve stem holes /clips etc.
Those repo trim rings are a different colour than originals, I think John Z posted before that the GM trim rings were flash chromed
9  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: trim ring fit to rim on: January 31, 2014, 11:33:00 AM
Gary, I have a real collection of GM Master Parts Catalogues, Camaro, Corvette,Nova,Chevelle,Vega,Firebird etc.,  The girl friend worked at a Local GM Dealer, she holds a licensed Journey man parts certificate, and still retains the Grp. part numbers/sections by memory. I got a lot of these when GM went computerized. The Camaro parts catalogue is 741A dated August/1974. I also have 751A, dated Sept/1975, 761A dated Jan/1978 and others I acquired when I ran a Corvette/Camaro Restoration shop for 20 yrs.
 In Grp. # 5.871 of the Camaro 741A it shows # 3901708, the 751A shows # 9796696 as do the others. I also scanned the Chevelle Part page. Interesting to note it shows for 70-73 Monte Carlo # 9796696 as having 4 clips.  
10  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: trim ring fit to rim on: January 31, 2014, 01:39:07 AM
Following up rszmjt posting from a few days ago:   I meant to check my P&A and post this sooner, but I'm doing it now.   I have a full Chevrolet Parts and Accessories Catalog, P&A 30A, effective date Oct 1, 1970.   It took me awhile to find the wheels/wheelcover (in section 5, for Brakes - Rear Axle, and Drive.   Page 5-49 addresses the relevant trim rings for which I've scanned and included below in Photo 1.  Note that this P&A was effective right at the beginning of the '71 model year, and end of the 1970 model year. and was less than a year from the end of '69 Camaro production.
Notice the appropriate PN at this point in time was the 9796696 which was for the 15x7 JK rallye wheel and was 2-3/8" wide.   The 9796698 wheel trim was the 'serrated' or 'finger' style.   This can be confirmed from the following ebay links where there are 4 of them for sale currently (NOS) in the boxes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/nos-15-inch-chevy-trim-rings-/221361583949?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item338a2db74d&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-69-Z28-GM-NOS-Trim-Rings-15-x-7-9796696-/121237108689?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c3a4b77d1&vxp=mtr

These are the same PN and have the finger style retention.

J.McNeish said every original Z28 he's viewed in the last 20 yrs or so had the 4-clip style.  I can say that every original Z28 I've viewed since they were new had the 4-clip style.  These 4-clip styles became unavailable (new from Chevy) shortly after the introduction of the '70 Monte Carlo.   If someone with a '69 Z28 wanted to replace their dented and scratched trims with new, they got the new style (with fingers).
Note:  I was a young airman in the USAF during the '68-72 period, and hung with a bunch of other young airmen who were hotrodders and street racers.  Several owned '68 and '69 and '70 Z28 and (a few owned Bosses, Hemi Challengers, etc).  We all spent every penny of our paychecks (a bit over $100/mo) on CARS..  Smiley   Factory rallyes and road wheels were the 'style' then, as not many could afford 'mag' wheels (that was the term then for aftermarket magnesium or aluminum wheels).. Smiley

My belief is that the factory designed trim ring for the '69 Z28 during production was the '4-clip' original style.   I also believe that the 'finger style' was designed for the 1970 model year (typical introduction during late Aug/early Sept) of '69.   As with lots of other parts used on 'late '69 Camaros, I think it is very possible that as the 4-clip style was exhausted, Norwood easily began using the 'same look' finger style as designed/mfg'ed for 1970.   It's also possible that there was a 3-4 month period (Fall '69) when both styles were in use in Norwood Camaro production.

Does anyone in the group have a P&A catalog dated within the '69 Camaro production period?


Gary, I dont think the 4 clip trim ring was discontinued until approx 1974 and the finger style was introduced in 1975 as my 1974 dated GM parts book lists the # 3901708 trim ring and the 1975 lists # 9796696.  When I purchased my car in 1974 I bought 4 New trim rings for it from GM and got the 4 clip style, they have been on the car ever since.

The # 9796696 trim rings in both the Ebay auctions (as well as the 4 NOS # 9796696 I have,) have squared off elongated Valve stem holes and the 4 clip style have a different oval type valve stem hole. I have a GM dealer Ordering Manual from 1969 which has all the option codes as well as fabric swatches and paint chips and it is hard to make out the valve stem holes in the Z28 section, but they dont look like the squared off style. I also looked at 2 road tests in Hot Rod and another publication from 1969 and could not make them out.

Does any one have any pictures from a 1969 Road test or dealer brochure or Day 1 pictures that shows the stem holes in the rings?


11  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: trim ring fit to rim on: January 30, 2014, 09:56:18 PM
FWIW, To really confuse this issue, I have also seen 3 versions of the # 3901708 trim ring with the 4 clips. The clips are the same but the internal ring that retains the clips into the crimped over outer have 3 different styles, 1 is like what Gary posted which is just a flat ring and 2 others that have a inner ring with a raised up portion towards the inside, 1 is much higher than the other as can be seen in the picture i posted. The upper 1 is NOS in a old old GM Box.
12  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: trim ring fit to rim on: January 28, 2014, 03:03:26 AM
Interesting to note my GM Camaro parts book dated Aug/74 shows only 1 trim ring for 1969 Z28 - # 3901708. Then a later issue GM Camaro parts Book dated Sept/75 shows - # 9796696. No trim ring attaching style notes are included in either parts book description.

My GM Chevelle Parts Book dated Apr/76 shows the  # 3901708 trim ring as - 2&1/2" wide -Attaches with 4 clips, fitting 74-76. It then also shows # 9796696 as a supplemented part number for this ring.

Then it shows # 9796696 fitting 70-73 Monte Carlo and it says - Approx 2&1/2" Wide - Attaches with 4 Clips.

I do know that later issue # 9796696 trim rings had the serrated teeth or fingers and were still available from GM I think until approx. 2007? There is also 2 versions of this ring, early issue had Black Serrations and the later issue had Silver Serrations. I have a NOS set of the # 9796696 and the boxes are dated Mar/2000 and they have the silver serrations.

My personal opinion is that the # 3901708 - 4 clip style trim rings were the original line installed trim ring on the Z28, and the later issue # 9796696 trim ring with the serrations was a mid 70,s service trim ring, and was also used by the dealer to replace existing 4 clip trim rings after that part number # 3901708 was superceded to # 9796696.

Jerrys Book only mentions that 2 styles of trim rings were used.  No Offence meant but I honestly don't see how  a legends judge could comment with certainty that in or around Feb 1969 they went to the fingers all the way around the ring to stop the 4 clip design falling off, when the Early dated 1974 GM Camaro and Chevelle parts Book do not show the Serrated type trim ring.
13  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: trim ring fit to rim on: January 26, 2014, 12:09:26 AM
The printed date on that paper is 9-23-66 and can be found at all the Corvette places. Does anyone have one with a later date like 1969.

Mike

I think Mine is dated 11/68 ?, it is GM original , it was with the car when I bought it in 1974, along with the Pop, battery warranty card, visor sleeve , owners manual, and a lot of other documentation including parts bills etc.
It is not a reproduction and I see no reason to doubt it didn't come with the car.
14  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: trim ring fit to rim on: January 25, 2014, 12:44:09 PM
Picture of trim ring card
15  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: trim ring fit to rim on: January 23, 2014, 02:51:51 PM
I will try and get a good pix of the gap and post it.  As for the 03E car, as I posted before I was told by a legends judge that in or around Feb 1969 they went to the fingers all the way around the ring do to the 4 clip design falling off.

I personaly don't believe that, my 06A has 4 clip rings. Bought the car in 74 and the protecto plate and owners manual was in the glove box as well as the visor sleeve operating instructions and a original trim ring removal card showing 4 clips. It also has the original spare, although used and the rim shows no evidence of ever having the gouge marks from a finger type trim ring. A buddys 09A (69) has the finger type trim rings.
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