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1  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: 1969 Camaro Vin124679N589834 what engine/badges, need help to decide on: February 02, 2015, 12:49:27 PM
With that VIN and trim tag, your would have been a 307 or 350 V8 small block. No other engine possible.


The trim tag shows original Lemans Blue with white convertible top and deluxe ivory interior. That is a super desirable color combo. Someday you could put it back to that if you get tired of the triple black it is now.

That car is so far from stock, leave it as is. It's a nice custom.  If you wanted old school factory original, get another car.
2  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Ron Pratte collection on: January 16, 2015, 01:14:57 PM
One thing, I'd like to know, how they figured out it is a re-body. Everyone was so sure it wasn't, back then.


Jerry M. wasn't there inspecting cars last time - he is this year.  :-)

Jerry M inspected the car for the owner before the 2008 auction and the car hasn't changed. What has changed is that Jerry M is now working for BJ and they are trying to reduce the amount of fraud and misrepresentation.

This car was outed on this site and TC, so much so that Mike Joy himself signed up to post about the car.

They really had no choice but to change the description to reflect the re-body. The restoration (re-stamped) drivetrain was noted in the "final" 2008 inspection report, but not in the auction description.

Does anyone see a change in how the cars are described this year? I have. Quite a few Corvettes now being described as having reproduction trim tags.
3  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Ron Pratte collection on: January 14, 2015, 01:30:49 PM
From BJ description:
Quote
Car was re-bodied and restored with all GM sheet metal, bumpers and tons of NOS GM parts.

I don't remember the "re-bodied" being there when the car was first listed. Maybe now that Jerry M is responsible for verifying all the Camaro's at BJ and this car is so well known on the Camaro boards, he requested a description change.

Quote
Jerry MacNeish and Norman Meads were hired by Vice President of Consignment, Gary Bennett, at The Barrett Jackson Auction Company.  Our job is to authenticate all restored first-generation Camaros, Nova’s and Chevelle’s that are consigned to all Barrett Jackson auctions.  Our mission is to protect the consigners and buyers who attend these auctions by verifying that the description on all vehicles is correct.  If the description states that the car is number’s matching, it is our job to verify and certify that the drive train in the car is original to the car.  If it is not, the consigner must change the description of the vehicle.  Due to all of the fraud and misrepresentation in the car hobby today, Barrett Jackson is going the extra distance to bring honesty back to the collector car hobby.

Everything I saw in the Ron Pratte collection sold well last night and this car was no exception. I was just dissapointed that they cut to commercial when it went across the block. I would have loved to hear the commentary on that one! I suppose they wanted to avoid any controversy like last time when Pratte bought it. Anyone here attend the auction and recall what was said about the car on the block?


4  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Hi everyone, new guy here...... on: January 14, 2015, 12:59:15 PM
Reproduction door panels have a "puffy' appearance, like yours. Originals are much flatter.

U17 was available on any model. However, you have the body broadcast copy, which shows what was installed at the factory. I can't read your small picture very well, and by no means an expert, but I believe on line 3 it should have a cluster box and yours looks like "NF". That would correspond to a sticker on the back of the cluster.  I don't have a list of cluster codes, but CRG should know. I am guessing Kurt knows these codes and NF is probably the standard speedo and fuel gauge.

Also, reproduction tachs look different. Post a pic of the tach if you want to know OEM or reproduction.
5  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud on: January 07, 2015, 01:38:35 PM
Kurt, I say pull it, delete the whole thing. There is plenty more out there, and there always will be. It's not like we are having a discussion about a members car who needs help cause he wants to buy it. You got the info in the DB it's done. There is going to be 100's. That missing tag info is a big piece of information.. Just my opinion... Danny

The problem with removing the thread is that "The Data Base" is privately held and few have access. Nothing will show up if a potential buyer searches a VIN. That's why regular members post these Trim Tags and VIN's, isn't it? To help out fellow enthusiast's?

Besides, this thread is no worse than most reproduction tag flags. Edit it you must, but leave the basic info.
6  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: in case anyone is interested on: January 02, 2015, 09:03:50 PM
this a post from a auction appraiser. 
 
The six figure Z's are no more. $60k for a nice restored car is top of the market regardless of what people are asking
For the archives (because the ebay ad will disappear) Winning bid was $59,100

Clem, you think that was all the money for your old car then?

Interesting to see what the market says later this month in Scottsdale.
7  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Motor vin stamp vs. transmission vin stamp on: December 31, 2014, 01:09:50 PM
Ok 2 questions. First in Johns report, shouldn't it say Pilot bearing, instead of throwout bearing? (I thought the pilot bearing was the one fitted to the back of the block) throw out bearing I thought was mounted to the clutch fork right?

Second in your post I didn't see if they were stamped using the same stamp, or 2 different gang stamps. Looking closely at my trans and motor it appears to be a different stamp, but maybe it just looks different because it is deeper into the softer aluminum on my trans?

there's nothing wrong with how JohnZ stated it...  both the pilot bushing and throwout bearing would have to be installed prior to mounting the trans to the engine. 

Since the motors are already coded for transmission type, wouldn't the pilot bearing already be installed?
Perhaps that's why JohnZ didn't mention it.
8  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 1968 Camaro Z/28 Sequoia Green on: December 29, 2014, 12:41:55 AM
I sent him the link.  With a simple statement.   "It is your car".   I thought it was legit and was 100 percent wrong.   Lies will catch up with you.   I have been dealing with the same type of thing on two purchases also from Camaro guys that know there cars.   Caught one in a lie that was just dumb.   I have learned not to trust many of the authorities on these cars.

Keep in mind that it is believed to be an original Z/28 with original drivetrain. Some where along the way someone tried to improve the marketability and didn't know what they where doing. No need to assist them where they went wrong so they can improve their skills!
9  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 1968 Camaro Z/28 Sequoia Green on: December 28, 2014, 03:34:35 PM
Kurt, I got a message back from the owner. Here is his reply.

  For once you don't know what you are talking about.... I have all the docs, owners, etc. until this car was new. It has never been decked. I have stamped hundreds of cars, but this one is original.  Why in the world would you think this pad had been decked?  

 I was just curious, as you must have some info from years past about this block? Pictures? I would love to send him a picture or some documentation. Scary, as a friend of mine was starting to look at this car kinda seriously. I have stopped him from purchasing about 6 fake cars. I love this sight, or is it site? It's late  Grin... Danny

The ebay seller, 9603mo, must be used to restamping big blocks then, because as Kurt mentioned the stamps are in the wrong order. That is how big blocks are stamped! I guess a little knowledge can be a bad thing.

This car was purchased by TC member TXSS for only $15,000 in March 2003. He was convinced the engine, although decked with no visible numbers, was the original MO 302 and all the casting numbers and dates he posted then are the same as the Ebay car.

Small Block:


Big block:


Ebay car:



10  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: 67 Camaro Rear Seat - RS on: December 23, 2014, 03:40:04 PM
All,

I need to replace my rear seat, 67 Camaro RS. My dad found one out of a 68 Firebird that is in pretty solid shape. Will it interchange both in fit as well as upholstery?

Thanks,
Matt

I am pretty sure all Firebirds have the rear armrest/ashtray portion and are similar to the narrow convertible and 67 deluxe interiors. What's on your 67 now? Narrow or wide? Why don't you just replace the upholstery on your existing frame?
11  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 19, 2014, 05:50:06 PM
If there are other known pilot cars and they have VIN's, has anyone, other than the owner of N100001, requested the shipping reports from NCRS?

If some you CRG fellows are connected to the NCRS fellows, perhaps you could request the first 49 or so Camaro shipping reports by VIN pro bono. That might shed some light on the pilot car project.

Of course the guy who spent $250,000 to restore the first coupe and plans on spending $200,00 to restore the first convertible may have already beat you to the punch!

All of the pilot car Shipping Data Reports are now available at:

http://pilotcarregistry.com/car-list-navigation.html

12  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 16, 2014, 10:21:23 PM
If there are other known pilot cars and they have VIN's, has anyone, other than the owner of N100001, requested the shipping reports from NCRS?

If some you CRG fellows are connected to the NCRS fellows, perhaps you could request the first 49 or so Camaro shipping reports by VIN pro bono. That might shed some light on the pilot car project.

Of course the guy who spent $250,000 to restore the first coupe and plans on spending $200,00 to restore the first convertible may have already beat you to the punch!
13  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 13, 2014, 04:15:35 PM
The booklet shows Fisher #DD01D with Fisher Pilot Plant #21 - Detroit as the starting location.

Would that be a complete body delivered to Chev with front fenders and rolling chassis, or just the firewall back as they would be delivered during actual production?

14  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 13, 2014, 01:46:13 PM
I assume you guys (Mark and Kurt) have the Chevrolet 1967 pre production build schedule booklet that kind of kicked this whole thing off. Do you know where I can see it on the web? Is CRG going to make it available?



Quote
BEFORE Chevrolets went into production, there was a pilot car; a car built by hand for fitment, ease of use for production line tools and many other reasons. In separate areas, these cars would be built, taken apart, re-fitted and more. Please read the first few pages as to the contents. It covers 49 NORWOOD-BUILT  “F-Body” Camaros and 10 LOS ANGELES built cars; 3 Camaros and 7 full size Chevrolets’ including the 427 SS Impala. In this  37-page, 5.5 x 8.5 booklet, you’ll find the specific cars, the options they were built with, production dates, delivery date, where they went and who at the dealer was to receive them! There are even personal, hand-written notes from 47 years ago.

Is this the only booklet of it's type that is known? It would seem there would be one produced every new model year, or at least every time a major model change was introduced.
15  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: COST OF BUYING CARS WITH OR WITHOUT RUST on: December 06, 2014, 12:14:18 PM
Some people are only interested in numbers matching cars. That's not me.

I am only interested in solid body cars that are free of any major rust.

I just don't have the time and space to repair them and the cost in my area for that kind if work is very expensive.
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