Messages

61

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Stamping Opinion

« on: September 07, 2023, 01:11:23 PM »

Shouldn't a January 1969 car have a tachometer as required equipment with Z28 RPO?

62

Originality / Re: Rear end gear ratio

« on: September 07, 2023, 01:09:31 PM »

I don't see 4:10 available as an option on the powertrain chart.

3.31 std, 3.07 econ, 3.55 perf, and 3.73 spec.

63

General Discussion / Re: This stamp look ok

« on: September 01, 2023, 06:58:28 PM »

After looking at thousands of stamps over many years you can kind of tell what looks normal and what does not. That is what most people use to form an opinion. Of Course, there are stamp anomalies that only the most experienced people can form an expert opinion on, and I am not one those people. My comment about it looking funny, means just that. It looks like something happened to this stamp after it left the factory to disturb the stamp and pad finish, and possibly at the factory to cause the last 3 digits to be deeper.
Here are some good pads and stamps, and you can see the last 2 digits on one of them look deeper, so that could happen.

Bottom line is, does someone want to but all that time and effort in on this car, and have a funny looking stamp? In my opinion, its way overpriced for what's there, what it will take to get it finished, and what the final product will be worth. For some unfair reason, the 68 model year is worth less than the 69, and is harder to prove than the 67 and 69 due to trim tag information missing.

64

General Discussion / Re: This stamp look ok

« on: September 01, 2023, 12:15:36 AM »

To answer your original question, it does not look OK, it looks funny. It also looks like a collection of near matching parts that only an expert in the field with many connections would be able to assemble if not real.

65

General Discussion / Re: This stamp look ok

« on: September 01, 2023, 12:11:59 AM »

Here's the thing not everyone knows. Jerry's report is a detailed documentation of the car, supporting documentation, and notes of correct/matching/non original/ date coded/time period correct parts/oddities not consistent with production assembled parts/procedures and such. It's not just a certificate. He would absolutely document what he sees, which is what we see.

He documents what he can see, compares it to what he knows, and forms an opinion. An expert opinion, but that is all.
 

66

General Discussion / Re: Mecum 69 Camaro

« on: August 22, 2023, 04:40:34 PM »

I agree.  I'm not a fan of tearing down peoples cars unless it is dealing with vin, tag, & stampings and that to me is not bashing.  I will say that the only question I have is what documentation or proof does he have on the "COPO Special Order Tuxedo Black Paint" comment.
[/quote]

What proof could there be? Black was RPO, not even special and certainly not COPO.

67

Decoding/Numbers / Re: BaT 427 69 Z/28

« on: August 09, 2023, 08:18:53 PM »

1969 production started sometime during August 1968. Tags are dated 08, 08A, 08D, 08E. Exactly when they started isn't known. The earliest drive train date is an August 13 Flint engine so figure about a week later. Schedule codes on 08 tags started with A and ended at 08E/I350 or so. A-I suggests 9 production days, maybe started August 20.

When the calendar rolled over to September, they didn't start over with schedule codes. 09A tags started with J and possibly ended with R. I have no O or Q examples but there may have been some. Definitely some confusion going on there as R-day builds can be 09A or 09D. S-day builds can be 09B or 09D. Still building 09D cars in October, mixed with 10A. That's how they got to X.

Got it together in October but must have worked some overtime and ran out of alphabet. Started using symbols followed by three numbers: %000, &000, -000, ½000, *000. Started over with A. So some October cars with an A schedule code were built 35 days apart. There's a few 09D cars with an A schedule code; September 30th was a Monday.

The rest of the production run was much better organized, until the strike starting April 28. The last 1,000 cars, with 04D or 05A tags, were built in late June.

Thats some good information right there. Thank you.

Makes me wonder what happened for the 1969 model year scheduling codes, since the years before seemed to follow a more normal pattern.

68

Decoding/Numbers / Re: BaT 427 69 Z/28

« on: August 09, 2023, 05:01:57 PM »

If X would was the 24th day of production, wouldn't that be week D or E? or did the production calendar not align with the monthly calendar? And why only seen in month 09, is it because that months production starts in August for the new model year?

Also, never seen anything less than a 4-character scheduling code but the wording on CRG makes it sound possible.

69

Decoding/Numbers / Re: BaT 427 69 Z/28

« on: August 09, 2023, 02:50:59 PM »

3 options on that tag:

Reproduction and the guy that ordered it did not know LOS does not use X codes.

Reproduction tag and the guy added X33 as a joke because the rest is obviously not original and could not be confused with a numbers car. Remember the guy that built a fake 1968 Z/28 convertible? All matching numbers with paperwork, as proof everything can be faked.

Original tag that just happened to have a Fisher Body scheduling code of X33. CRG says "The one-to-three digit sequence number that follows the letter was reset to 1 at the start of each day" So X day, 33rd car. Not sure this is possible, as I have never seen an X day or 2 digit code.

And BAT is planning on removing Z/28 from the description as we speak.

70

Decoding/Numbers / Re: 1969 Z28 interesting engine stamp

« on: August 09, 2023, 12:29:23 PM »

Now a little bit about the other Van Nuys Camaro I have. It is a first day build convertible built in late August. Vin ends in 000226 and Fischer Body #18. As most of you know, Van Nuys VIN numbers were sequential and counted all cars built. This included Impalas, Chevelles, Corvairs and I believe Novas. Very early build car with the complete intact born with drivetrain. Base convertible with 275HP 327, PowerGlide and a2.73 rear gear. Original Granada Gold, now black with the SS strip around the front of the nose.
Looking for any and all feedback on any of these Van Nuys built cars.

John

You are confusing the VIN with Fisher body codes. VIN numbers are sequential within each model line. Body scheduling codes are the ones that are sequential along all model lines.

71

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Do these stamps look legit?

« on: July 11, 2023, 12:10:56 AM »

I wasn't inferring that there was anything wrong.  But to see a HD 3spd L48 SS is rare.

Yeah, 3079 of them. Included with SS. Pretty rare because undesirable. Is this a low option SS?

72

General Discussion / Re: Transporting my Camaro from Florida to Upstate New York

« on: May 20, 2023, 01:14:53 PM »

Hire a transporter. Post a picture of your car so I can look for it at the Syracuse Nationals in July!

73

General Discussion / Re: The Chevrolet Limousine

« on: April 17, 2023, 04:42:52 PM »

Interesting story from John Z. It seems the manager of the garage was a real prick if he took it upon himself to report upstairs as to what vehicles managers arrived in.

Could you imagine if Delorean had upfitted an existing Chevrolet Suburban instead of fabricating a Chevrolet limo at great expense. He could have been the hero that created the luxury SUV market, just as he created the muscle car market 5 years earlier with the GTO.

Here is the quote from John Z on the other page:

Shortly after John DeLorean became the Chevrolet General Manager, he attended his first monthly General Managers’ Meeting as the head of Chevrolet, at the GM Building; he arranged to be driven to the meeting from Chevrolet’s headquarters at the GM Tech Center in a black Cadillac limousine. Shortly after the limousine drove into the executive garage at the GM building, the manager of the garage called upstairs to the 14th floor to inform the Chairman that Delorean had arrived in a Cadillac. This didn’t go over well at all with (Chairman) James Roche and (Vice Chairman) Richard Gerstenberg, and they chewed him out royally when he arrived in the conference room, reminding him that only the top two officers were entitled to chauffered Cadillac limousines, and as head of Chevrolet, he was expected to arrive in his Division’s product, not in a Cadillac.

Later that day, after DeLorean arrived back at Chevrolet, he told Alex Mair, the Chevrolet Chief Engineer, that he wanted a Chevrolet limousine built in time for the next month’s General Managers’ Meeting. The project started that night in the Engineering Metal Shop; a Caprice station wagon was pulled out of the fleet for the front third of the car, and a Caprice hardtop coupe with the stylish concave back window was pulled out of the fleet for the back third of the car. The two cars were cut in half and set up on a surface plate, and work proceeded (on a three-shift schedule) to fabricate the center third of the car to join the two partial cars together as an extended-wheelbase Caprice limousine.

Fisher Body Plant #21 (where the Cadillac limousine bodies were built) was approached to provide the interior trim and glass divider partition, but they refused, so the velour interior and mouton wool carpeting was stripped out of the borrowed limousine used earlier, modified, and installed in the now-stretched Caprice, including the rear air-conditioning unit and overhead A/C ductwork in the headliner. The completed car was sent to the Proving Grounds, checked out for function and safety, and returned to Chevrolet Engineering two days ahead of the deadline.

Delorean used the freshly-created Caprice limousine to go to the next General Managers’ Meeting, the same call was made to the 14th floor from the garage office when he arrived, and he was again berated when he entered the conference room; he then pointed out that he had done exactly as he had been instructed and arrived in a Chevrolet. The 14th floor gang was not amused, but he enjoyed it. Upon return to Chevrolet Engineering, the limousine was parked in the fleet lot, sat there for several months, and was later wholesaled to a dealer or National Car Rental; where it went from there is unknown, but it was the only factory-built Chevrolet limousine ever made.

74

Decoding/Numbers / Re: 69 Z28 124379N599987 known?

« on: April 14, 2023, 04:04:36 PM »

But that tag looks like a repro tag.

If this tag is a repro, I am losing my touch. Thought it was an original.

75

Decoding/Numbers / Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS

« on: March 22, 2023, 02:59:48 PM »

Did anyone watch the entire video? I tried, but had to speed up and FF parts because it's a lot of rambling.

The jist of his complaint with the inspector seems to be that he did not spend anytime verifying the partial VIN stamp in the rough cast area after discovering the DZ was a restamp. Used car salesman is saying it could be the original block that was only restamped because of decking during rebuild. And he wants you to know the owner restamped the DZ second time to try and correct the incorrect D in the stamping to make it more square. Here is the result: