Messages

181

General Discussion / Re: Help with Identifying 1969 Hugger Orange SS 396 Poss. L78 Camaro with L89 option

« on: May 20, 2019, 02:08:18 PM »

That first page of Jerry's report means nothing other than he inspected it. You need to see the meat of the report on the subsequent pages.
How convenient the seller has lost the rest of the report. If I was the seller and the car was even near real, you can bet I would have the full report available as it would add more than the cost of the report.
Looks to early for an X code. Aluminum water pump tells me it was built to owners wishes rather than back to factory.
I also recognize the back ground and all the old guys in it. That's Pavilions in Scottsdale AZ. Guaranteed if that was real they would know about it on The Supercar Registry (yenko.net).
Even if it's not real, they will know about it. Most are retired and go there every week and have probably seen it a hundred times.
Opportunity you say? Is it a dealer car?

182

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Stamp anomalies

« on: May 04, 2019, 12:24:21 AM »

We generally don’t openly discuss VIN stamps. But as mentioned, it depended on how the person loading the stamper loaded it.

On the axle stamp, in 1968 April 23 and April 30 were both Saturdays. Both done on first shift. Only speculation, but maybe the worker had a rough Friday night and too many drinks. Loaded and  stamped wrong date and then either he or somebody else caught it soon after.

Uncommon ratios were built as needed so it’s possible the last previous date used was the week before, and maybe forgot to change the date.

We discuss stamps all the time, we just don't disclose what makes them authentic or not in order to reduce fraud.

Most high end fraudsters already know what the stamp procedure was and how they should look. The key to spotting restamps is a data base of good stamps for that time period. I asked if anyone with access to the data base has seen VIN stamps near this one with upside down 8 and odd alignment.  I got crickets. That's OK, I don't really need to know.

Interesting that the axle stamp is a week apart, and on the first shift. Certainly could have been both stamped on the same date because of looking at the wrong calendar week. You don't have to be hungover to make that mistake. Seems like many anomalies are blamed on careless or disgruntled workers. Not sure if that is true, but makes a good story.

BTW, the car bid over 70K and did not meet reserve.

183

Decoding/Numbers / Stamp anomalies

« on: April 19, 2019, 05:50:35 PM »

This is a well documented car on ebay that has been judged as having authentic stamps. I am not disputing that, just trying to learn more.
The VIN stamps just look hand stamped and unevenly spaced to me. Was this normal for this time period?
Also, if it was gang stamped and they only incremented the VIN stamps, would there be other VIN stamps near this one with the upside down 8 in the database?





And here is the rear axle stamp, done twice with different dates. Was it the wrong date stamped the first time, or was it sent back for rework and restamped with the new date?

184

General Discussion / Re: Its back....restamped block and all.

« on: April 08, 2019, 01:39:56 AM »

Do you have the complete VIN for the record?

185

Originality / Re: Green but not Rally Green Camaro

« on: April 02, 2019, 06:55:26 PM »

Special paint coded.....Joe

Yes it is, on both the trim tag and body broadcast sheet (which you don't see that often).

Original family owned and low mileage.

186

Originality / Green but not Rally Green Camaro

« on: April 02, 2019, 04:14:54 PM »

Special order green paint. Looks a little darker than Rally or Verdoro Green, but nice . Not sure if it's original paint, the door stripe looks a little funny.



Tire size decal on door jamb? Original paint here?



Interesting car with docs.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-Chevrolet-Camaro-RS-SS/143197108928

187

Decoding/Numbers / Re: this one just sold on ebay.. x66

« on: April 02, 2019, 03:41:46 PM »

He means the maroon car, not the something similar blue car.

That looks like a rust belt special. All non original drive train and poorly back halved. Look at those panel gaps. You dodged a bullet if you are looking for anything other than strip car.

Whats with the front inner fender liners? Plastic?

188

General Discussion / Re: Tonawanda Engine Plant Memorabilia

« on: March 31, 2019, 06:04:00 PM »

No gang holder. It was an assortment of 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", and 5/8" stamps. Not a complete set by any means.

I am sure there are guys around here that have the actual line stamps used on engines at the plant. I don't think the ones I bought are from the line. More like from the machine shop.

189

General Discussion / Re: Tonawanda Engine Plant Memorabilia

« on: March 30, 2019, 11:23:27 PM »

Also picked up a box of miscellaneous cutting tools dirt cheap. Found some number and letter stamps in there. Not sure if they are the ones used for engine pad stamping, but you never know.

190

General Discussion / Tonawanda Engine Plant Memorabilia

« on: March 30, 2019, 02:06:15 PM »

I was at an estate sale the other day near the engine plant in Tonawanda NY. It was obviously a retired employee from the plant. Tons of plant memorabilia and some machine tools. This is not the first estate sale I have run across in the are with Tonawanda or Harrison memorabilia. There are a lot of retirees here.

I picked up a plaque just like this one, but passed on a lot of other stuff. Do you think this kind of stuff has a high value? Any thing high value I should look for in the future?




Also a key chain like this, that says 50 years on the other side. Chevrolet was founded in 1911, so it may be from 1961?

191

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Multiple factory POP errors or clever fake?

« on: March 02, 2019, 03:55:37 PM »

Since the factory put the drivetrain details on the PoP, I would think it would not have gone unnoticed with several errors on it; perhaps one digit incorrect, or two transposed, but ....... who knows?

You would think it would get noticed if any warranty claim was ever made. Theoretically warranty would be denied due to proof of not original engine installed by the factory. That's the whole point of putting the component numbers on the POP.

192

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Multiple factory POP errors or clever fake?

« on: March 02, 2019, 03:52:32 PM »

maybe someone should PM the owner and ask him if a vin is stamped by the oil filter

It just sold, so point is probably moot.

193

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Multiple factory POP errors or clever fake?

« on: March 02, 2019, 03:50:53 PM »

Did the person ever state the engine was "born with"? I may have missed it.  Not defending as I do not care but just curious.

No, never used the "born with" designation anywhere I looked. To me, matching numbers implies born with. Maybe I am naive.

194

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Multiple factory POP errors or clever fake?

« on: March 01, 2019, 01:17:09 PM »

https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=153422

Yes I read that thread and others before posting. It's a real Gentleman's Club over there at Yenko. They tend to respect each others cars publicly, so not surprised no one picked it apart. I also can't comment in that section without being a paid member, which I am not.

You guys know this, but let me state for others who are casual readers:
The casting date should be shortly before the assembly date and the assembly date shortly before the car build date. Some people are using this information and thinking it is OK to have the engine stamp date shortly before the POP engine date. This is false. The POP engine date and code is read directly from the engine and imprinted on the POP and should match exactly. That said, this engine is not matching numbers, but that does not mean a mistake could not have happened and this could be the original engine in some extra ordinary exception to the rule that I have never seen before.

In order to prove that, the partial VIN stamp would be needed, but it is not shown. It's also not shown where it would be, on the pad near the assembly code or near the oil filter in the rough cast. That makes me wonder if there is a different VIN there making this a period correct instead of original engine.

195

Decoding/Numbers / Multiple factory POP errors or clever fake?

« on: February 28, 2019, 02:29:18 PM »

This car has sold a couple of times recently and been discussed on all the sites, but I have never seen a real explanation for the discrepancies.
Everyone seems distracted by the cool factor and patina. Several have questioned the discrepancies, but no one has addressed the elephant in the room.

The engine date on the POP is completely different from the engine pad stamp
The transmission stamp has 1 letter mistake compared to the POP and the VIN is double stamped with 1 and 2 characters faint or missing on each.

Is this a case of multiple factory errors, an early misguided attempt at forgery, or just a clever fake?

124379L522031






https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-RS-SS-/223409382608?_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l44720&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-RS-SS-396-4-SPEED-/232589518569?_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l44720&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true