Hello 69Z28,

Sorry for the delay; I have not been on CRG for quite some time.  I purchased a Delco ACD 78-7yr battery, item #19001631, professional grade car and truck, maintenance free battery.  It’s a 770 cold cranking Amp (CCA) rated and has never failed me for the seven years it has been in use.  The first one was purchased in 2000, and sure enough, 7-years later in June 2007, I purchased the 2nd unit. I use a battery maintainer if the car sits for more than 6 weeks or longer.  I try to at least drive the car once a month (give or take a few weeks) on a 10 mile trip during the winter if the streets are dry to keep everything in good working order and keep seals lubed. 

My side post negative cable is marked 6297650 AU, the positive cable is 6297683 AR, as noted in the AIM, Section 12 A11 on page 162.

Dave

Last year at the Spring Mecum auction, which is held here in Indianapolis where I live, I reviewed an exceptionally nice survivor, very low mileage, Dodge Daytona "wing" car (okay, okay...not a ‘69Z Camaro which is my 1st love, but I really enjoy all muscle cars...particularly survivors).  I talked to the owner and the only non-original component under the hood was the battery.  He keeps the original in the trunk.  He purchase a very nice reproduction jell battery but I do not recall where.  I do remember that it costs about $450.

Has anyone had experience with the new repro jell batteries which are supposed to be very reliable?

Years ago, I purchased a very nice dated code Y77 side post battery for my 05A '69Z from New Castle.  As Jerry M explained, it was not 100% technically correct as it had 3/8-16 terminals on both the Pos & Neg.  This battery was the only one I could find at the time, and could not fine the correct reverse polarity repro cables to be 100% correct.  Did I recall reading (perhaps some fictional stories) that GM dealers in service after the original car sale, would replace the original Y55 side post reverse polarity battery with a Y77 and changed out the cables?

My repro battery lasted for about 3 - 4 years (I kept it on a battery maintainer anytime the car was not being driven for a period).  I cell died and I could start the car to get to a car show, but it was DOA when I tried to drive home from the show.   I have a good reliable Delco battery in use now and the "neutralized" repro is the trunk for show only.

Dave

427-King,

Sorry for the late response but work and other commitments have kept me quite busy lately.

When I restored my car during 1995 - 2000, I used a company named ASL to restore a number of my brake components.  They had a number of smog systems for sale.  When it came time to invest in a smog system, ASL was out of business.  I called Rick George who operated Rick's 1st Gen Camaro Parts and he gave the name of the guy who restored smog systems for ASL and his business.   I called and chatted with the guy and he happened to have a complete date code system correct for my car.  I guess it was my lucky day.

If your looking for a system,  inquire at the Camaro restoration supply companies.  I also have found Hemmings Motor News be a good source.

Dave

Here is a picture of my 458DA smog pulley.  My smog system was missing when I purchased my 69' Z28, but fortunately I found a very nice complete survivor system with dated holes clamps and the crossover hose. 

I hope these pictures helps and good luck with your project!

Dave
 

LM69,

Give AMK a call,  they may sell you the small order that you need.  I have placed several small orders under $30. But I have spent a good amount of $ with them when I restored my car so AMK may have waved the $30 min order.

Thanks IZRSSS and Paceme.

Your screws look like AMK screw B-11183, an 8-18 x 7/16 with a .38 encapsulated washer, in plain steel.  I'll may order these and give them a try.  One issue I have is that the passenger side was never drilled and attached with a screw,  and to drill the hole will require removing the fender.  Maybe I'll be lazy and not go to the trouble just as the boys one the Norwood line back in '69! LOL

Any suggestions?

While we are on the subject of screws, can those with unrestored ‘69s cars or ‘69s with the original hardware intact, show a picture of the correct screw that holds the Front Windshield Lower Molding outer clip to the body.  See picture of the molding for reference.  You can see this clip and screw when you open the door and look into the inner fender area

Thanks!

Dave

Hello All,

It has been a while since I have been on this discussion thread and have a lot to catch up on.

Here are pics of my cowl panel area screws.  My car is a Norwood build 05A or 1st week of May car as a point of reference:

#9421479 Cowl Panel Screws. AIM Page 27 Detail #2: (AMK #B-12172, but they come as Phosphate; they need to be replated silver Zink). I got these from Larry Christensen.

#4874119 Cowl Panel Top Plastic Plug.  AIM Page 27 Detail #3: (AMK - no listing).  I believe I got these from Larry Christensen).  PS - These are not screws but this topic concerns the cowl area so I included them.

#447143 Windshield Washer Nozzles.  AIM Page 29 Detail #2: (AMK #B-11070 in the correct Zink Silver plating).

#3933052 Windshield Wiper Motor Linkage.  AIM Page 26 Detail #2: (AMK #B-10884 in the correct Zink Silver plating).  They are my original screws and it is hard to ID the bolt head.  I am sure there will be several suppliers as this is a common screw used across several car models at that time.  AMK head mark is "A".

Regarding the format, I like the format shown that appears to be a MS Excel file.  If Excel is used, it can be sorted several ways to make look up research easier, and pictures can be pasted in the file.  Excel can be copied in to a PDF format should a color book ever be generated from this information.

Dave

BULLITT65,

Thanks for your input.  So far we have:

Car Build date w/Hood Date Code
05A with 18th week - cowl hood, Norwood car
05A with 18th week - cowl hood, assembly plant not stated by kurt s
08C with 26th week - cowl hood, assembly plant not stated by BULLITT65[/li][/list]

I copied over some links from a different but related discussion about chambered exhaust. 

Reference to the original discussion: http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=9380.0

Below are two links to two YouTube sound bites of exhaust systems on the 1969 Z28s for reference and help in choosing an exhaust system for your '69 Camaro.  This first link is from CRG member jmcbeth's completely stock '69 Z28 (…and very nicely restored Z28 I should add…) with the Gardner's transverse muffler system including the resonators.

Jmcbeth’s YouTube Link: http://youtu.be/8PMF8311ACA

This is the sound bite of my "relatively" stock '69 Z28 302 but recently upgraded during the motor rebuild with Comp Cam's solid roller cam kit 12-770-8, springs, lifters, push rods, cam button, and #1804-16, 1.5 ratio Ultra Pro Magnum Roller Rocker Arms.  Initial timing set at 12 deg. BTDC, idle speed set between 900 - 950 RPM.  Results: Very responsive and reliable power from 2200 to 6200 RPM.  The sound bite is through the stock exhaust manifolds and exhaust system with the transverse muffler, without resonators.  This solid lifter cam was selected to be relatively close in sound characteristics to the stock 30-30 cam, yet more usable power lower in the RPM range.  You will notice it has a bit more crackle in the sound note.

My YouTube Link: http://youtu.be/bSGjLtTmmls

If some else has Gardner Exhaust’s chambered system on a stock '69 Z28, please post a similar sound bite.  This will provide an interesting side-by-side comparison with jmcbeth's stock transverse muffler system with resonators.

Thanks and enjoy the music!

Dave

jmcbeth,

I finally was able to take and edit a sound bite of my '69 Z28 with stock exhaust w/o resonators.  My 302 is "relatively" stock but as I mentioned earlier in this discuss thread, I decided to upgrade the valve train to a full roller cam and roller rockers from Comp Cams as I had specified. 

I just posted the sound bite on You Tube: http://youtu.be/bSGjLtTmmls

I'll submit another post on CRG titled "Stock 1969 Z28 Sound Bites" with links to both our sound bite so it will be easier to find in the future.  If some else has Gardner Exhaust’s chambered system on a stock '69 Z28, please post a similar sound bite.  This will provide an interesting side-by-side comparison with jmcbeth's stock transverse muffler system with resonators.

Thanks!

Dave

69camarox33,

JohnZ and tmodel66 are correct.  As long as your brake booster precedes your build date, by a reasonable about, you probably have the correct unit.  I have a "05A" or first week of May Norwood built '69Z.  It still has its original "9204" stamped power brake booster date coded "108", or the 108th day of 1969 which was April 18th, which was only about two weeks before the trim tag car assembly date.

If you have the '69 Camaro Assembly Instruction Manual (AIM…a must have if you're restoring your car), page 260 covering the J52 Front Disc Brakes and Power Brake Cylinder Balance Valve & Brake Pipes show the booster and master cylinder as GM #5468165 Cylinder Asm.  This assembly was built and date coded by Delco Moraine when the subassembly was built at the component plant prior shipment to the Camaro assembly plants.  With a few exceptions, this was the situation on many of the subassemblies the GM component plants sent to the assembly plants. CRG has many great tech articles on the date code topic and the assembly process.

Hope this helps and good luck on your project!

jmcbeth,

I had planned to do that, and I will try to get this done this weekend or very soon.  I have several sound clips but I did them solo and you see me walk from behind the camera to start and idle the car, pull into the garage, shut off the engine and then walk back to the camera to shut it off.  I am not able to edit the sound clip and I need to get an assistant to help as you did.

Prior to rebuilding my engine, I searched and searched but could not find a sound clip of a Camaro Z28 302 with this cam.  Your "stock" set-up and my "modified - stock" set-up will provide a unique side-by-side comparison!

Regards,

Dave 

jmbeth,

Thank you for posting the pictures of your exhaust system and YouTube sound clip.  Your car looks and sounds great!  This is the first time I have heard a ’69 Z28 with stock exhaust and resonators.

I just played your YouTube sound clip side-by-side with my system and they are very similar.  Your system with the resonators is a bit quieter than mine without resonators, but not by much.  If we were to run our cars side-by-side, I am sure the tone would be more noticeable.

My idle characteristic is slightly different due to my recent motor rebuild and cam selection.  My car is not a numbers matching Z28, and has a replacement "DZ" engine, so I decided to update the valve train to a full mechanical roller Comp Cams #12-770-8, "XR274R.  The cam's 110 deg lobe separation, lift, and the intake and exhaust duration allow for very nice and usable RPM range of 2200 - 6200.  I am very happy with the power this cam provides and it is very drivable.  My goal was to retain the stock mechanical lifter sound, and keep the stock valve covers, so the engine look and sounds very stock. 

Again...great job with your car!

Dave

Steve,

Your story is interesting.  The pervious owner of my '69 Z28 purchased the car in his home state of Connecticut in 1989.  He has lived in Indianapolis for many years where I live.  I purchased the Camaro from him in 1995 and started the restoration, which at that time, the car only had 44,851 miles.  The 1989 emission decal from Connecticut was in the front windshield with a "FAIL SEP 18 89" stamp.  The car had headers and an aftermarket exhaust system, and the carb was jetted rich.  So, now wonder it failed the emission check! For fun, I attached a picture of this decal. The document in the background was my title search and attempts to fine the owner history which came back “No record of ownership exists for the follow described motor vehicle..."

During the late 1990s, I attended the Camaro Nationals in Pigeon Forge, TN to look at well restored cars, and studied two ’69 SS Camaros side-by-side.  One was a survivor with its original GM chambered system and the other car with a repro system.  The difference in sound between these chambered systems was remarkable.  The repro system sound much more poppy and did not have the same deep tone as the original system.  The original system obviously has many years and miles on which may have been a factor.  Gardner’s system should be a good system and should sound very close to an original GM system.  So anyone wishing to purchase a chambered system, I highly recommend the system from Gardner versus a cheaper alternative system.

Back to the resonators: at the time I resorted my car, Gardner Exhaust was either not in business or not well known.  I purchased my complete transverse muffler exhaust system (again, my car is a 05A car) from the former Rick's First Gen. It was a nice system but does not compare to the Gardner systems available today.  I searched for a long time for resonators but none were available, so I had to install the resonator by-pass pipes.

A year ago, I contacted Gardner to ask about purchasing resonators but they only sell complete systems.  Heartbeat City Camaro Parts currently has a set of NOS resonators, G/M #3909959, for $1,750.  Here is link to the website and item: http://www.heartbeatcitycamaro.com/store/product/22785/Camaro-NOS-Exhaust-resonators-3909959-69/.  If my car was a #s matching rare car that was never driven, this might be a good investment.  I attempted to verify the #3909959 part number but the ’69 assembly manual shows them in the illustration, but does not call out the resonator part numbers on page 388, for the dual exhaust N10 option.

Jmcbeth,

I look forward to seeing pictures of your exhaust system and hopefully some details shots of your resonators.  I have several sound bites of my car’s exhaust sound w/o the resonators and would like to hear yours with the resonators in a side-by-side comparison.  Gardner’s website provides a number of sound bites, but I am not sure if the “1969 Camaro Z28 Deep Tone” sound bite includes the resonators.  I intend to call them to ask.