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109158 Posts in 12644 Topics by 4860 Members
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16  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics on: January 01, 2015, 05:45:06 PM
I like the 4.56's and teal blue... uncommon options pointing to an original owner with a reason/purpose.
I bet the original owner has stories... 
17  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: COPO? on: January 01, 2015, 05:33:08 PM
It's getting close to a finished value if restoration costs are taken into account.
Unless specifically looking for this combo... a White w/ Black int & column shift auto has limited appeal even if it is a born with drivetrain COPO.
18  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 1968 Camaro Z/28 Sequoia Green on: December 29, 2014, 05:34:18 PM
I would much have preferred it to be the original condition vs the restored condition. It had all kind of appeal before, now it is just another restored 68 Z28, not that there is anything wrong iwth restored cars. That car being stored in TX had mucho potential as an unrestored car, all the crustiness under the hood would be gone in little to no time safest rust remover and cosmoline. The oxidized paint could be polished but none of the metallics back then were very glossy.
19  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Trim tag and engine stamp opinion on: December 28, 2014, 08:12:36 PM
I know of another 69 Z which has a DZ with the flint machining characteristics and also has a T0225DZ stamping... The original POP has T0225DZ on it too, we had believed someone re-stamped the block to match the POP.
20  Model Specific Discussions / Trans-Am Camaros / Re: Penske Downforce Mods - '69 Cars on: December 28, 2014, 12:26:06 PM
The Grand Sport corvettes had a problem with front end lift due to trapped air in the engine compartment which is why they went to the Louvered hoods.
21  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: 0-0 67 orange seats on: December 28, 2014, 12:14:53 PM
760 is black buckets.

I don't think there was an orange interior in any GM car before 1969.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
22  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 1968 Camaro Z/28 Sequoia Green on: December 28, 2014, 11:32:54 AM

That car was bought out of Texas with 9000 miles had Magnesium 5 spoke torque thrusts, had hood pins, no radio, M22, HD Brakes, Cowl Plenum, The paint was weak but in no way should the car have been painted or restored...
Here are the photos from the Advertisement, last I had the car was in Georgia.








OBTW it has A sedan History as it was campaigned 68-71.
23  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 19, 2014, 07:34:21 PM
The 3 LA cars have the build dates a year late... unless they were actually built in the summer of 1967.
24  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT? on: December 14, 2014, 11:23:10 AM
X77-69Z28 Thanks for your efforts however being a much later piece if glass I do not know that it is relevant.

Here are a few more photos showing a detail of the cloth type seal with the last one showing a series of numbers written by hand on the drivers inside top along the edge normally covered with adhesive.





25  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 13, 2014, 11:54:22 PM
In the photos of the car no 10 the 1/4 panel sticker says Grand Rapids No 2. I am guessing that is a stamping plant.
26  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 13, 2014, 12:32:07 PM
Good questions because if they were built up in a Fisher operated plant such as Norwood all the fixtures would need to be in place, and as you stated and I neglected to consider the massive presses used to stamp sheetmetal parts, there were GM stamping plants in Detroit they wouldn't have had to unnecessarily go outside of town.  
I would assume that Fisher Design did not have a pilot Sheet metal stamping line (although with the number of different models produced it may have been justified). So if they were not checked within a Fisher design facility where would the original dies be tested for stamping of production parts?


If you checked production records for Nor in May of 66 does the number of cars produced slack off by any significant amount?
If there was a 10% production drop would that indicate additional work or projects injected into "normal" production?
What about 5%   or    20%?
27  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 13, 2014, 12:05:26 PM
So what was the product out of the Flint Pilot line?  I'm guessing this is where the clay and wood mockups and models became one or more hand assembled steel "cars".

Where did the parts that the assembly plants got to run down the line come from, or did they get some kind of partial assembly from the flint pilot plant?

I believe your assumption of the hand assembled steel "cars" is probably correct.
It's interesting to note that between 1959 and the Firebird clays approx 10 years the number of processes aided by computers jumped significantly.

Does GM still have all those tapes?
They stated any drawing could be produced from the tapes for any part in side top obliques etc.
28  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 13, 2014, 09:44:55 AM
This is an EXTREMELY informative and quite detailed regarding the transferring by follower arms of design to dies then about the jigs and fixtures which are designed and built for the assembly of cars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACWMbeXd31s


I can understand why the Fisher Body plants and assembly plants were divided, it was very much an art to build and finish bodies.
29  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 13, 2014, 07:33:47 AM
This is the film they are digitizing the 2nd gen F body and milling dies at the tail end of this video.... these are worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_wLx3hF6oY


at 2.34 in the following video they say that pilot lines are at Fisher Body Design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw9mB9Lf2X4
30  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 12, 2014, 11:22:36 PM
The June issue of Cars Magazine with Marty Shore as editor ran a story about the introduction and they were still referring to it as the Panther.
I am assuming the name had been chosen just not revealed at that point.

Since Marty is still active in the hobby it may be worth a shot to see if would remember any of the early press or manufacturing info, or even second hand info from press days? Sometimes trials and tribulations of design & manufacturing come out in informal settings especially when things are successful.

There is a film on youtube which shows a buildup from clays to pilot lines illustrating Fisher and their coach building, I can't remember if they were doing the pilots in the assembly plants or on a pilot line at design.  It was quite detailed showing how they made the steel dies from the full size models with plotters and milling machines.
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