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97527 Posts in 11718 Topics by 4581 Members
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1036  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 69 Z28 Question on: August 18, 2006, 06:57:32 PM
Do a search for fake, clone, and z28.
That should about cover it... you will find all the numbers and what to look for there.

If you do have the numbers from the cowl tag, vin number, trans number, & the rear axle numbers please post them and we will begin disecting it.
1037  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: your thoughts on date code 302 on: August 18, 2006, 06:39:20 PM
That block has been cut.
There are no broach marks at all.
1038  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: Original style exhaust system for 67ssrs? on: August 17, 2006, 01:16:57 AM
There is nothing like a Gardner system... they fit with no cutting, bending, hammering, etc...
1039  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Black Firewall Paint on: August 17, 2006, 01:12:35 AM
I believe that it would be the PERFECT place to begin.
Something like the NCRS has in place, a standard for every year including common & not so common deviations from the norm.
A judging manual for every year, that breaks the car into sub sections and then components with finishes, part numbers, or casting numbers.
That way the same exact process could be followed on each car, there would be less room for personal preference to bias the scores.
Like an ISO guide for Camaro's.  Grin
1040  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Black Firewall Paint on: August 16, 2006, 09:13:41 AM
The problem in the past with the AACA (I have first hand experience my mother and father are both past presidents of the local chapter and have hosted national and Grand National events) is that they did not learn to judge the cars correctly. They would score a car that had everything painted black on the chassis the same as they would one that had everything detailed correctly. It really put off the guys who had spent hundreds of hours detailing their cars to the N-th degree. The worst part was they did not seem to want to learn either... they have since come around but not until they hemmoraged members.
Many of them started their own Camaro, Chevelle, Mustang only clubs so that their efforts would be recognized.
My dad had asked me 15 years ago how their club could attract younger members and that is what I told him back then...
1041  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Black Firewall Paint on: August 15, 2006, 08:06:11 AM
Chirs,
I am in total agreement with you, if there is supporting documentation... photos during the disassembly etc... photos from when the car was new, then there should not be any question from the judges as to whether it is correct, even if their manuals say that it is not.

What is going to happen when someone brings an authentic restoration to a show?
One that has runs in the doorjambs, scratches in the subframe paint, and scratches all over the brackets and little parts.
Believe it or not the little parts were not packaged individually with bubble wrap when they were delivered from the manufacturer to the assembly plants. HA HA
They were bulk loaded in bins... JohnZ correct me if I am wrong...
Guys paying $100,000 for a resto would not tolerate the lack of attention to detail that the cars originally had, although they should insist on an authentic restoration if they are paying that kind of money. IMHO.

Ok ... off the soap box  Wink
1042  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Black Firewall Paint on: August 13, 2006, 11:52:31 PM
My point exactly...
I believe that the definition of Restore is "to return to previous/former state" anything but returning it to how "it" was built would be a modification... not a restoration. Makes you think...
The perfect cars are what has led to the surge of interest in the original cars... unrestored, they are what they are no repainting, correcting imperfections, etc... 
I would pass out if I saw a car restored like they were really built... It would be hilarious to see the "know it alls" pointing out what is "wrong" with the restoration.
1043  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Black Firewall Paint on: August 13, 2006, 07:12:05 PM
Quote
I'll step down off my soap box now...
lol  Smiley

I feel for what your saying firstgenaddict, but an equally valid argument would be that we should restore our cars to factory specification.
If the factory spec called for the firewall to be blacked out to the top edge, then perhaps that's how it should be restored.

I understand the rationale of that argument, however; if we go with that line of thought then there should be no overspray on any floor pans, no visible chalk marks on the firewall (they were blacked out with the firewall), no overspray on the exahust manifolds, or bellhousings, They only were partially painted and then only when it was overspray due to proximity to a cast iron part being painted.

That can of worms is just incredible.

There was a thread on TC where I believe Supercar Workshop restored a camaro and they put the dust flaps on the inner fenders with the flaps on the inside of the engine compartment instead of in the wheel wells. Charlie says to the guys nice resto or something to that effect then says you put the dust shields in wrong... they replied that they were installed like that from the factory and they had the photos during the disassembly to prove it. I believe that he said hey if that was how it was then that is how you should put it back. 
1044  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: stripe question on: August 13, 2006, 06:54:27 PM
The bright spot on the firewall above the heater box is the aluminum patch made to cover the cowl plenum hole that was hacked out by the guy that ran trans am.
1045  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Black Firewall Paint on: August 12, 2006, 02:01:22 AM
Exactly... you did your research and you know how it came.
Ideas are only radical and their promoters are labeled crazy when the ideas are not believed by the masses... once an idea is accepted you don't have to risk anything (pride, ego, reputation) in order to embrace it. 
1046  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: stripe question on: August 12, 2006, 01:54:24 AM
Yea... 18k makes you want to go lock yourself in a rubber room... huh?
Probably went to someone who doesnt think it is nice enough and will restore it. Ugh
1047  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: ***Wanted PICS of 69 Z Radiator Hose Markings*** on: August 12, 2006, 01:27:45 AM
upper is  3956662 JR
Lower is 3942561 SM

Anything you can help with would be greatly appreciated
1048  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Black Firewall Paint on: August 11, 2006, 03:55:58 PM
I do not consider that an equally valid argument. But that is just MHO.
If we are going to become educated about these cars we have to be willing to accept things other than the "norm".
They were production automobiles built by humans... and unless you are my wife... humans make mistakes.
In Jerry's book there is a factory photo of a white striped Z and there is HEAVY white overspray all the way down the firewall,
What would the judges say about that car? What if they were provided with the factory photo?
The disassembly photos of the Sequoia Green car's firewall are compelling evidence that the car was built that way...
When a car show judge says that he "knows" how the car was built, and is not open to alternatives, few of the current collectors/judges (short of JohnZ) were ever in the plants when the cars were being built.

ONCE AGAIN... I will say that if you had a time machine and traveled back and bought a brand new 69 Z brought it to the present and put it in a car show...IT WOULD NOT EVEN PLACE.

My opinion is that if you are going to over restore it... you might as well just chrome everything... both ways are incorrect!
1049  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / ***Wanted PICS of 69 Z Radiator Hose Markings*** on: August 11, 2006, 01:39:40 AM
I am notat all satisfied with the reproduction radiator hose markings. They are nowhere close to correct... it is actually funny how bad they are...
If anyone has photo's of NOS or Original Hoses I would greatly appreciate copies... if you have the hoses on hand and could take some photos with a ruler or tape measure showing the height or width of the characters I would appreciate it.

There were alignment stripes on some (yellow or Blue) I would appreciate photo's of the stripes as well.

I am going to make a stencil, stamp. or silk screen to replicate the markings... I am SOOOO tired of buying reproduction parts that are not right...why bother making them, I can buy incorrect stuff at the local autozone any day of the week AND it is alot cheaper.

Judging by the response on other boards quite a few guys feel the same way as I feel.
I may be busy repopping rad hoses...   
1050  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: stripe question on: August 11, 2006, 01:26:52 AM
Here is the engine shot.. not too clear.
Now for the heartbreaker... this car was raced in regional SCCA Trans Am events from 68-71 then titled and driven sparingly on the street... Cowl Plenum M22 and it sold for $18,000 in 2004.
I do not know who bough the car but I have the contact info for the seller.
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