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1  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT? on: December 14, 2014, 11:23:10 AM
X77-69Z28 Thanks for your efforts however being a much later piece if glass I do not know that it is relevant.

Here are a few more photos showing a detail of the cloth type seal with the last one showing a series of numbers written by hand on the drivers inside top along the edge normally covered with adhesive.





2  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 13, 2014, 11:54:22 PM
In the photos of the car no 10 the 1/4 panel sticker says Grand Rapids No 2. I am guessing that is a stamping plant.
3  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 13, 2014, 12:32:07 PM
Good questions because if they were built up in a Fisher operated plant such as Norwood all the fixtures would need to be in place, and as you stated and I neglected to consider the massive presses used to stamp sheetmetal parts, there were GM stamping plants in Detroit they wouldn't have had to unnecessarily go outside of town.  
I would assume that Fisher Design did not have a pilot Sheet metal stamping line (although with the number of different models produced it may have been justified). So if they were not checked within a Fisher design facility where would the original dies be tested for stamping of production parts?


If you checked production records for Nor in May of 66 does the number of cars produced slack off by any significant amount?
If there was a 10% production drop would that indicate additional work or projects injected into "normal" production?
What about 5%   or    20%?
4  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 13, 2014, 12:05:26 PM
So what was the product out of the Flint Pilot line?  I'm guessing this is where the clay and wood mockups and models became one or more hand assembled steel "cars".

Where did the parts that the assembly plants got to run down the line come from, or did they get some kind of partial assembly from the flint pilot plant?

I believe your assumption of the hand assembled steel "cars" is probably correct.
It's interesting to note that between 1959 and the Firebird clays approx 10 years the number of processes aided by computers jumped significantly.

Does GM still have all those tapes?
They stated any drawing could be produced from the tapes for any part in side top obliques etc.
5  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 13, 2014, 09:44:55 AM
This is an EXTREMELY informative and quite detailed regarding the transferring by follower arms of design to dies then about the jigs and fixtures which are designed and built for the assembly of cars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACWMbeXd31s


I can understand why the Fisher Body plants and assembly plants were divided, it was very much an art to build and finish bodies.
6  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 13, 2014, 07:33:47 AM
This is the film they are digitizing the 2nd gen F body and milling dies at the tail end of this video.... these are worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_wLx3hF6oY


at 2.34 in the following video they say that pilot lines are at Fisher Body Design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw9mB9Lf2X4
7  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures on: December 12, 2014, 11:22:36 PM
The June issue of Cars Magazine with Marty Shore as editor ran a story about the introduction and they were still referring to it as the Panther.
I am assuming the name had been chosen just not revealed at that point.

Since Marty is still active in the hobby it may be worth a shot to see if would remember any of the early press or manufacturing info, or even second hand info from press days? Sometimes trials and tribulations of design & manufacturing come out in informal settings especially when things are successful.

There is a film on youtube which shows a buildup from clays to pilot lines illustrating Fisher and their coach building, I can't remember if they were doing the pilots in the assembly plants or on a pilot line at design.  It was quite detailed showing how they made the steel dies from the full size models with plotters and milling machines.
8  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: if you could go back and redesign the 67/8 .. or that other one, on: December 09, 2014, 10:39:03 PM
from the raw type design of the 67 - the refined mechanics with addition of the L89 for 68, the RS trim and large mouldings dressed the 68's out, then 69 was sharper, appeared wider and with the wheel opening shape of a flat top coupled with the gentle tapered peaks from front to rear the car appears to be moving even when standing still...

I never appreciated the 69's until I started restoring them, the body lines on a 69 are unlike any other car...

Give me a 68 RS/SS L89 4.10 or 4.56 m20.
9  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: Issue with argent silver wheel paint on: December 09, 2014, 09:28:48 PM
How many people realize they do not have the correct lug nuts for their open faced wheels?
These lugs are impossible to find. They are Stainless capped with a tall crown which will not let the lug wrench to full seat on the flats.

The crown height is the same as the flats, the later capped lugs had a short crown.

10  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: Issue with argent silver wheel paint on: December 07, 2014, 12:05:11 PM
The silver / argent color difference would be expected if Motor City Wheel supplied finished wheels (N66 only).  (Which I believe, is the theory we are gravitating toward.)

The reason being that as far as has been reported the plant had no way of 2 color masking within their wheel line. 

11  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Nice Z28 For Sale on: December 05, 2014, 11:25:18 AM
I love Dusk over Dark Blue... I missed a project which was equipped very similarly a few years ago, someone on the boards here bought it.

If it was quartered correctly 40k is a fair price for a nice combo, I agree it was probably raced given the 4.88's and extra U bolts on the axle plates.

Biggest thing I see is about the interior is the reproduction door panels.

The Alternator is probably wrong, if the distributor and carb are right BONUS!
12  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: Flash Chrome - Recommendations for a reputable shop? on: December 05, 2014, 11:12:27 AM
The copper is used as a filler for smoothing the surface.
They typically polish the copper then nickel plate it then polish the nickel then the Chrome is only a thin plate for protection more and evening the surface color between lots than anything.
Find a business who does industrial chrome plating for something such as Hydraulic Cylinders pistons, or corrosion protection, smoothness etc and not for it's aesthetic qualities.     
13  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: This Pic got me thinking.. on: December 03, 2014, 05:00:11 PM
Ed Montini did a LOW MILE (1100 miles) late Norwood car built after Body Number reset which was in Chicago last Nov, it had heavy firewall overspray too. Ed told me he debated whether or not to restore it as it was photographed on disassembly but ultimately decided to do it as it was built.
 




It had the interlocking redesigned drivers motor mount as well.
14  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: Issue with argent silver wheel paint on: December 03, 2014, 04:50:21 PM
Yes then use a tack cloth to get rid of the dust.
15  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: This Pic got me thinking.. on: December 03, 2014, 03:38:50 PM
Flat hoods had nothing to do with the overspray in the wiper cowl.

1969 Z28 Norwood 10D Early Parked in 1973.









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