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31  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Looking to contact Jon Mello or any '67 Z28 owners on: February 06, 2007, 04:22:05 PM
Hey Steve...long time no see! (on any board).   Whats new?   What current beautiful project you got goin? 

Sorry for the sort of hi-jack.   Wink
32  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Barrett-Jackson lawsuit on: February 06, 2007, 04:19:31 PM

 they must have figured out a way to buy it back?

But Barrett Jackson says they don't allow that to happen....    Wink
33  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Repro Delco R-59 Battery - Best Place to Buy?? on: February 05, 2007, 02:29:52 PM
Why does it seem so hard/expensive for somebody to make a good reliable repro battery that looks correct and lasts. With all the high dollar restos and supply houses out there you would think this would be a no brainer in todays world. Huh

It's all about the $$$$$$$...  keeps you buying them.   Wink

For example...I bought the correct color coded hoses to replace my RS vacuum lines when I restored my car.  That kit was expensive....  Within 6 months those pretty color-coded hoses were crumbling and cracked.  Boy was I mad.  Angry   I wasn't about to pay that price again for the kit... I went down and bought some standard black vacuum hoses  from the auto-parts store and they are still good 11 years later.
34  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Barrett-Jackson lawsuit on: February 02, 2007, 08:02:14 PM
.....and now this from the original fourwheeldrift article writer Sam Barer

I smell some big time arm twisting (read: legal action/threats) in this version...

The Reason It’s No Longer Here
After some real soul searching I decided to take down the posting regarding Barrett-Jackson. I was not going to offer an explanation to readers, but after widespread rumors, many emails and telephone calls, I wish to set the record straight.

Steve Davis, President of Barrett-Jackson took the time and effort to read the article, and then posted a comment that argued that the content was “reckless.” I firmly believe that in writing it I far exceeded the standard of conduct applicable to opinion pieces published on the internet. Each of the allegations made in the piece was already published in print, on message boards, around the blogosphere, through email lists, or had been circulating via car club events. I have additional sources who provided other information regarding most of the points.

That being said, as I reread the piece and gave it a lot of thought, I came to the belief in retrospect that while a valid piece of journalistic workmanship, it could be arguably seen from Barrett-Jackson’s standpoint as unfair. I had aggregated claims and allegations from sellers and participants over the years, yet had not leavened the piece with B-J’s side of the story. In taking it down, it offers B-J time to respond, educate, investigate…I even provided B-J the name and contact information of the now-famous judge (with his consent,) who sold his high-profile car on Saturday of the event. Hopefully, they can communicate and come to an understanding, and both report back.

Since I have no personal animosity against B-J (I believe it to be one of the most entertaining auto events of the season,) and I realize there are two sides to this and every story, I felt the better course of action was to pull it down and integrate anything they chose to communicate within a new article.

Furthermore, the article brought out many additional people (including some names car enthusiasts would recognize) who have taken time to tell me their personal stories of interaction with B-J and other auction companies. So like an artist who looks at his painting after the fact, this story, if and when it is updated, can look so much better, in my opinion, with all of the information provided by these sellers, attendees, as well as auction company representatives. (I also thank Drew Alcazar from Russo and Steele for taking time out of his busy schedule to communicate with me. I look forward to hearing more from him, as well as representatives from other auction companies, who have contacted offering to share information regarding their experiences.)

My final reason for pulling the article was that it was getting too personal on many levels. From threats of lawsuits against me to attacks against those posting on the blog with differing views, it simply was not what The Four Wheel Drift was intended to be about.

I personally thank all those who have sent their stories and support, as well as those many great, trustworthy sources who were the basis of the original story.


Sam Barer
The Four Wheel Drift
35  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Cowl Tags from the B-J on: February 02, 2007, 05:30:43 PM
What I don't understand is why GM doesn't go after the "entity" who is making the fake tags?  Angry  Theres a copyrighted name on those fakes....or am I mistaken and they have permission to do this?   

Thanks to Mike for "enlightening" me on how to spot a fake.   Smiley   I vow to not discuss specifics of these on any board.
36  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Cowl Tags from the B-J on: February 01, 2007, 08:21:35 PM

It is accepted practice on this board and others not to openly talk about the specifics of repop tags.
Email me and I will talk with you there if your interested.

Actually, that makes sense now that I think about it.  I was just curious how best to spot one...I'll send you an email.
37  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Barrett-Jackson lawsuit on: February 01, 2007, 06:49:30 PM

Just noticed this year, the auction crowd prefered the customs, or so  it seemed.
Many looked right past the original non-restored - used car.

I noticed that too....   

I read in this weeks  Autoweek the owner of Russo/Steele (Alcazar?) claims that the custom resto-mod cars are dropping in price...yet they were the ones that seemed to take in big money at BJ.   
38  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Cowl Tags from the B-J on: February 01, 2007, 06:37:34 PM
I'm certainly no expert...but how can you tell they are fake tags (other than the newer rivets)....if someone went to all the trouble to create a fake tag...why wouldn't they reproduce the correct rivet?

If this is the case that they are fake and not disclosed as fakes, there should be hell to pay.
39  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Yenko Turbo Z/28? on: February 01, 2007, 01:37:53 AM
All that paperwork/documentation and nothing on final HP rating?   Nothing on the Yenko link either.   BAse 350 was 175 HP...but what did the turbo add?
40  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Barrett-Jackson lawsuit on: January 30, 2007, 07:25:47 PM

Dog and pony show
Smoke and mirrors
A fool and his money
big top circus
Silicone city Smiley

That pretty much sums up my experience two weeks ago at my first Barrett-Jackson event.   I personally can't stand an auction and the "be bwah biddle dee bee" speak, that gets on my  nerves within 5 minutes.   I'm just glad I went to see some of the most beautiful cars I've ever seen in person and likely  never will again.  I think people are idiots buying a car at auction when you could buy that car for less private party.   The seller may make more money by doing an auction...or some may not with the no reserve.  I can't believe some of the beautiful cars I saw go for dirt cheap.

Honestly, the vendors we spoke with were making fun of most of the bidders calling them dot commers with too much money and they're not true collectors.
The vendors are getting tired of being ripped off to have a display tent/booth there too.    Some don't even need the exposure BJ gives them, so they're likely not going to return.
BJ won't even let vendors bring in their own food and water, they make them buy from the food vendors putting more money in BJ's greedy little fists.

A local guy that we walked into the show from the parking lot told us a few years ago people were putting "for sale" signs on their car in the parking lot and BJ had them ALL towed.  Hows that for greed?  Does Jackson really think cars for sale in a public parking lot is going to hurt his precious auction?

If you ever go to the BJ event...just go to see the beautiful cars and ignore the crazed frenzy around you.   Do it once if you can.    I won't ever go back...which is too bad because it's nice to see those cars.  Just not worth the crazy price of admission anymore.
41  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Barrett-Jackson lawsuit on: January 30, 2007, 01:14:56 PM
Before I posted this thread, I tried to find more on the lawsuit to verify it...but could not find anything.    I will certainly post more info if it comes available.
42  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Barrett-Jackson lawsuit on: January 29, 2007, 01:35:38 PM
Thought some of you may find this of interest...I jacked it from another board.   It's somewhat long, but interesting.


Barrett-Jackson’s Westworld Tent Turns Out to be a House of Cards
January 27th, 2007 by fourwheeldrift

As a collector car journalist, I have been watching the Barrett-Jackson auction for years. For the last five or so years, it has been very apparent that the Scottsdale auction is at best a bastion of gross consumption…but now some hobbyists are claiming a worst: fraud.

I’ve discussed B-J with collectors, dealers and enthusiasts, many of whom would be considered “insiders,” meaning they’ve bought and sold cars at B-J and other auctions, or are well-known in the collector car hobby. For some reason, it is this year that people are all finally grumbling and passing rumors in unison.

The bottom line is that Craig Jackson and the B-J company seem to have really screwed themselves this year. Apparently, a well-known judge (legal, rather than concours) selling a vehicle at B-J this year has filed papers with the court, because B-J contracts specifically promise every car three minutes on the stand. Evidently, he was one of the sellers who had his car short-timed. He communicated the story, which got broadcasted via the Classic Thunderbirds List. According to the grapevine, this is already being discussed as translating into class-action status for the benefit of other sellers.

According to this judge and other sources, it appears Barrett-Jackson was operating a bit on the same level as an evangelical healing show. Allegedly they had assistants milling around asking what specific sellers thought their cars would bring. Armed with this information at the control desk, if a lot passed the value at which a seller indicated he’d be happy, the car would be rushed off and the gavel would fall – even if bidding was still very much alive.

Because the event was televised on live television via the Speed TV network, the plaintiff(s) now have video/audio proof that buyers were signaling increased bids before the three-minute marks, but were denied by a too-fast last call and hammer.

While this all might cause Barrett-Jackson to have to pay money to sellers in the form of a judgment or settlement, it is something else that might land Craig Jackson in jail.

It is no secret that Barrett-Jackson owns many cars that are run through the auction – it was something I suspected many, many years ago. This was proven when they started maintaining a showroom of cars in Arizona. This is not illegal, but stay with me.

Along with many collectors, I’ve always suspected that the cars owned by Craig Jackson and the B-J company were often driven up by shill bidders working for the company. Essentially, the strategy works in the sense that ever since the auction focus moved from classics like Packards and Duesenbergs to muscle cars, B-J has been able to shill, say a Hemi Cuda or mid-year Corvette 427 they own, which causes the value of the 10 other identical cars to increase. They wind up “buying” their own car back, but the others go on to regular buyers, who now are paying higher because of the perception the market has moved up.

This suspicion has been supported by at least one auction attendee this year that says he witnessed cars sold at auction headed in trailers back to B-J’s warehouse. The lawsuit allegedly points out that these cars also spent significantly more time on the block than others.

If this isn’t all interesting enough, during this year’s auction, fellow collector car journalist, Keith Martin of Sports Car Market, was booted from the Westworld premises and his media credentials revoked for voicing loud, specific concern regarding the event while sitting in the media room. Barrett-Jackson accused Keith Martin of “holding court” and attempting to send VIPs and journalists to the competing RM and Russo and Steele auction events. Among the alleged opinions included that the cars at B-J were of inferior quality (and had quality misrepresented,) as well as that the bidders were significantly over-bidding cars, which shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone who has witnessed people paying six figures for cars they could have bought for under $50,000 any other day of the year!!!

This is somewhat of an interesting twist. Keith Martin’s publication has marketed the B-J events and has helped fuel its popularity. Keith is definitely one of the great “insiders” of the hobby, and has been a friend to Craig Jackson. In past years, Keith nor his publication have been critical of the goings-on and rumors, while other collector car journalists screamed that something stunk.

It makes sense, since Sports Car Market really only tracks the value of vehicles and other items sold at auction, rather than via private sales (which really has skewed SCM’s values for years!) So without kissing-ass to B-J, Keith would have missed insider info on the largest events covered by his mag. So we can only guess that Keith and Craig had a falling out of some type.

I applaud Keith for turning the corner on his view of B-J, but I’m with others I’ve talked to about this: I hate to say this about a colleague, but I believe his behavior was a bit unprofessional. As journalists, it is our responsibility to write what we think, but going to the show for years, then promoting RM and Russo+Steele while at Westworld is somewhat unkosher. I agree that Keith, a true hobbyist who started out by writing an Alfa Romeo newsletter, was for a long time too much a part of the “circus” about which he finally rejected, and that SCM has to a significant degree helped to fuel misinformation and a house of cards regarding specific auction prices and bidding behavior. Keith, by all accounts, is a really good guy — an enthusiast, who maybe just needed to take a step back and a big breath and reacquaint himself with those outside of the very insulated collector car “in crowd” — and spend time with some car people who are not trying to exploit the collectors. There are plenty of guys who have dug themselves too deep into this little crowd, and are no longer fun to deal with, because they’ve put personal greed well ahead of the cars and the collectors. Keith will rebound — he has a great internal staff of really fantastic people, who hopefully will help him return to his roots.

And Keith got his chance at revenge today, when his piece in the New York times said: “the red-hot market was cooling a bit.” He likened the high auction prices to the craze, then went on to say: “While the prices of some types of cars remain strong, primarily low-production muscle cars with their original engines (“numbers matching” is the trade term) or sports racing cars like Ferraris, other more common cars produced in larger numbers, or cars whose engines have been replaced, are holding their values, at best.”

If you want to get back at someone who owns an auction house, the best way, I suppose, is to tell everyone that prices are too high. Ouch!

While I’ve never met him, the buzz among those in the hobby — both collectors and journalists, is that Craig Jackson is quite arrogant, so don’t expect many to come to his rescue. He inherited his father’s company, and has fueled B-J’s admirable growth with a combination of intelligence, drive, ego, and greed. While there is nothing wrong with that combination, if it results in unethical and possibly illegal activities, that’s inexcusable.

Like many surrounding the hobby, I will be watching the events unfold. Will the Westworld tents come down like a house of cards, or will everything just go away with an exchange of a little money? It’s happened before, like the 2006 event’s Futurliner debacle when investor Ron Pratt allegedly negotiated a $3.0M price (after B-J staff admitted to mistaking the high bid), but the reported sale was for $4.0M.

It’s hard to predict the outcome. None of us have all the facts. Craig Jackson has become a very powerful man, and his company has pumps an estimated $96M dollars into the Arizona economy annually. He’s allowed his say, and the appropriate judge/jury might very well decide he personally has done nothing wrong.

This all being said, there’s no doubt that Barrett-Jackson “jumped the shark” this year. Unlike when Fonzi did it, this story has Craig Jackson driving his allegedly shill-bid Hemicudas over the tank and down a ramp that could lead to six years in a minimum security prison-issued orange jumpsuit. If that’s the case, maybe he can get Sports Car Market in the slammer to keep-up on Russo and Steele, RM and Kruse auction results.
43  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Another question for the pros.... Redline tires from Diamond Back Tire Company. on: January 29, 2007, 11:35:07 AM
Flowjoe....  Nice GTO!

I'm glad I posted this thread to ask...sounds like everyone here who has used them is quite happy.

does diamondback have a web site?

The link is in the original post at the top.   Grin
44  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Another question for the pros.... Redline tires from Diamond Back Tire Company. on: January 27, 2007, 08:49:05 PM
Well thats a glowing recommendation for Diamondback..thanks John.  ...and a very pretty Vette you have there.  Cool
45  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 1967 Camaro LA VIN number 16 Body #1 on: January 27, 2007, 08:47:32 PM
I only saw it from the outside...didn't see it with the doors or hood open.   It still looked pretty to me..but I didn't look that close. 
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