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112100 Posts in 12879 Topics by 4931 Members
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3091  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Warranty Engines on: March 07, 2007, 03:58:08 PM
I remember this GA state law. It's shown up in some other docs, IIRC. Seems like there was some efforts to comply with it, but it didn't go far.

It's hard to draw conclusions without seeing the context of those quotes.

Unfortunately, I don't think Fran has the capabilities of scanning documents and I don't live near enough to help. Smiley
3092  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 z28 on: March 06, 2007, 01:45:29 AM
Who was or is responsible for inspecting and verifing this informaton? Was there docurmentation that goes with the car when delivered to the dealer or customer? Is this the documentation you require to verify and enter a z28 into the registry?

That's an interesting question to which I would love to hear an answer.  Do cars that have an X code but lack all drive train components qaulify?  How about LA cars that may have a correct engine but no codes?  I realize there are a lot of things to look at that help determine the legitimacy of a car (Z/28 or SS or ??) but I'd be very curious to learn the criteria that the CRG uses to qualify a car's entry into the DB (Short of Jerry inspecting and vetting each entry).

Given the much larger number of '69 Z's produced I would expect to see more in the DB.

Please note, this is not to nit pick the CRG but rather to understand the process.
We are talking apples and oranges here.
dab67's question asked about how cars get into the registry. I assume Jerry was anwering for the 67 Z registry. I'm not sure what is required for the 68 Z registry.

The database has no such requirements. It was designed from the beginning as a database for research, not a registry.
The lack of criteria is its strength. You pour in a lot of data, some of it good and some bad, and with enough data and the right analysis, you can discover new things.
If you only put in what you know is true, then it only tells you what you know. Smiley
3093  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 z28 on: March 06, 2007, 01:28:48 AM
That's not many '68 Zs considering the size of the DB??
No, it isn't.
The db has some distortions in it. One of them is that 68's (all) are underrepresented.
3094  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Rallye green 69 Z on: March 06, 2007, 01:25:08 AM
Are there any production figure breakdowns based on color? Just wondering how rare the Rallye Green color was?
There's no production #'s, but this color data was generated (by me) using the CRG database:
3095  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Vins in database? on: March 06, 2007, 12:41:25 AM
Sorry, nothing.
3096  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Hidden VIN on: March 05, 2007, 01:50:17 AM
Guys, did you look on this site?
3097  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 1968 Yenko COPO Camaro's on: March 02, 2007, 12:46:57 AM
All evidence (blocks and docs) points to all the 68 9737's being a 396, no evidence of a factory 427.
Early and late cars still have the MV block.
3098  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 z28 on: March 02, 2007, 12:43:44 AM
In the db:
275 68 Z's.
950 69 Z's.
3099  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Do these 302 DZ Block Numbers make Sense? on: March 02, 2007, 12:38:35 AM
That VIN is not in the db. That's a big spread on the cast date, but possible.
Can I get a picture of the engine pad? Does the engine have it's original distributor?

3100  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 67 Pace cars on: February 28, 2007, 06:20:45 PM
Tony, an interesting post, which begs some questions. Smiley

The 4K car that is in question, I believe, was one of the Display cars that could have been found at the Indy Museum or at the Murat Temple.
I have verified that at least two display cars were delivered to Indy. Just as today, the Museum always displays a mocked up Pace Car.
What leads you to believe that an L78 car would have been one of the display cars and not an L35 car?
Couldn't this L78 have had other potential uses at Indy?

It is the first time in Indy history that the Pace Cars were considered modified. Although, not much by today's standards,but nevertheless modified for the day.
 Do to Speedway rules for Pace Car qualification and Chevrolet's hasty effort to debut to "the Industry" the NEW L78 motors in the Pace Car,  these cars had to be changed into the hybrid animals that Charley and the Clarey's have today..or more like what just Charley has today.
I'm not familiar with any requirements that Indy puts on pace cars. Do you have any documentation on this?
Are you saying that due to Speedway rules, the L78 couldn't be used? This I find hard to believe, since the L78 was a widely available RPO by May.

The original third car was made into a test mule as stated by Phil. The fact that an L78 could not of had a automatic in 1967 is only true for public sales. The Chevrolet Proving ground Mechanics had the inherent problems that existed when mating a L78 up with a Turbo 400 worked out before the end of the first day of Pace Car trials. The only stated reason for the L78's being pulled is because they made a "Terrible racket" as described by one of the Indy Zone managers that I interviewed.
There is the practical issue of making the L78/M40 combo work, but on a higher level, Chevrolet may have chosen not to use a non-available powertrain in the pacers. If the issue was solely a noise issue, then why not use a L35/M20 combo? It would have only required swapping out the engine.

So when it comes to the car that Jeff is talking about, which I believe to be this car (or one just like it). The "System" had already had it scheduled to be a L78, not for Pace Car duties, but to show it off to the ever pressing crowds that visit the Indy Museum and the Murat Temple at this time of year, the NEW L78 motor available to the Camaro.   Smiley
This is stated as fact. Is it or is it the current working theory?

3101  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 67 Pace cars on: February 28, 2007, 11:40:06 AM

This site welcomes polite and intelligent discussions.

I do not believe your recent posts involve either of those features. You are not adding anything constructive to this discussion. I would call it badgering instead.

Please discontinue posting on this thread.

We have only revoked someone's forum privileges once before.  Please don't become number two.  This is your first warning.  You have only one more warning available.
If any of this is unclear, please send myself or Rich a private message /email and we will be happy to clarify it.

Thank you,
Kurt Sonen

3102  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Jerry your attention please on: February 28, 2007, 12:25:14 AM
That car has some 'issues'.
It's helpful to have a trim tag that matches the VIN. Sad
3103  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 67 Pace cars on: February 28, 2007, 12:14:45 AM
I clearly defined what factory meant. Please define "Chevrolet Delivered".

Since the 67 Track cars were delivered to the race as L35's, and that was the first time they were released from production, by GM
In my mind that is what they are  - L35's --Sorry if this upsets anyone.
Those are two conflicting statements.
#90 and #92 were built (released) by production as factory L78 cars.
They were then modified by Chevrolet Engineering to L35/M40 cars.
That doesn't change the fact that they left the factory as L78 cars.

Let's keep Grumpy's car out of this topic. The pacers are the topic.
3104  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 67 Pace cars on: February 27, 2007, 10:47:29 PM
Slow down.
No way Steve - those 2 track cars were not L78's.
Chevrolet made those cars as L35's.  It's all there right in the paperwork.
Doesn't mater what the initial order was - When CHEVROLET was ready to deliver those 2 cars - they were L35's
And they will always be L35's in my opinion.
I will say it again--  READ MY LIPS -- The first and only Real 4K 67 pacecar is the #3 car. Period
Let's work on definitions:
Factory configuation - configuration as built by Norwood (in this case).

My statement says that both #90 and #92 were both factory L78 cars. Both were then converted to L35/M40 spec for the pacer duty.

Both were original L78 cars and neither were in that configuration at the race.

The 4K car is the only *known* 4K car that was at Indy, and the only *known* L78 in it's original factory L78 configuration at the race. There may be others, who know if they will ever surface.

I'm not quite sure why you refer to the 4K car as #3. It was one of many IPC there at the race. IIRC, only the festival cars were in the parade, and since it was not a festival car, it probably didn't circle the track.

3105  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 67 Pace cars on: February 27, 2007, 09:32:21 PM
Here's what I see:
#92 (Charley's car) and #90 were ordered as L78 cars. Norwood built them as such (#92's POP confirms that). After they were built, it would appear that Chevrolet decided the pacers should be an automatic. The work order is dated after the cars were built and well after the order was in the system. There was no automatic that could live behind an L78 in 67, so the two pacers were detuned to a L35/auto combination.

There was a pacer that at the event that was a 4K L78. This is an 04D car and is the car that Jeff is referring to. So far, it's the only IPC that's been found that has been a 4K car. Since it was a regular car (regular here meaning it was not one of the pacers) that Chevrolet provided to support the race, it would have been at the race in its factory configuration.

What did I leave out?
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