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106593 Posts in 12427 Topics by 4790 Members
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2896  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Big block with auto. on: March 15, 2007, 03:46:18 PM
Though my car is pretty original, that area of the car has been changed and the kickdown was missing. So no help, sorry.
2897  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Car Insurance on: March 13, 2007, 12:17:04 AM
In certain states, State Farm offers a true 'Agreed Value' policy, IL being one of them.
I pursued this, it is not offered in MI.

I have Hagerty. A friend got hit and Hagerty paid, no hassles.
2898  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: is this vin in the data base 9n560527? on: March 13, 2007, 12:04:54 AM
2899  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Two Black 1969 Z28s! on: March 12, 2007, 11:53:19 PM
There's 23 black 69 Z's in the db.  Doubtless there's more out there, I know there's several that I've seen but not entered.
2900  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Warranty Engines on: March 12, 2007, 10:29:05 PM
Make this note :
        "In addition to these service only assemblies, any current production passenger engine assemblies that are ordered by the Parts and Accessories Department for service usage must have a service identification number".
         I'm going to jump to a conclusion here. If they ordered an engine for a specific application, say an L-34 350hp/396 engine for a 1968 Camaro it would be stamped "T0309XX" and ALSO a "CEx50001" (with X being the year it was ordered in). That's a lot to stamp on that small pad. But that's what the instructions say they have to do to COMPLETE engine assemblies (as opposed to partial assemblies or universels). 

After doing some more research and talking to Al Grenning (Corvette engine guru), I believe that complete engine assemblies that were used for service were only stamped with the CE code. Fran's supposition had a solid premise, but no CE blocks have ever been found that have an engine assembly stamp on them, either in a Camaro, Corvette, or out of a car.
Which means the engine plant would have known that those assemblies were destined for service and did not stamp an assembly code on them.
That also means there's no easy way to distinguish between a CE short block and a CE engine assembly. Heads and other components would be dated for the block, if those components are still on the block.

Are the totals for engine production by engine assembly part # or by application code? Do any of the sheets indicate where the assemblies were destined (i.e. assembly plant or service)?

2901  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: is this car in the DB 68Z VIN# 8N477646 on: March 12, 2007, 03:02:04 PM
He post here,, and I replied. Smiley
Nothing on that VIN.
2902  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: New Decode pages on: March 11, 2007, 02:03:55 AM
Rich did most of the work by generating the decode page originally. And the group has continued to update the pages as time went by. So there's a lot of people who have had input into those pages.

I'm an editor at heart. It was nice to have a solid foundation of info to start with. Smiley

Rich did an amazing job of implementing the change; there was a lot of things on the site that needed to change to make it work right.
2903  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Warranty Engines on: March 11, 2007, 01:51:50 AM
Please eliminate the insults from your posts. We welcome your knowledge and information here, but just because everyone doesn't immediately agree does not mean we need a war of words.
This is a discussion board that holds itself to a higher standard. Stick to the facts and you will make you point much more effectively.

I have never seen a CE stamp and a production stamp (T1012xx) on the same block, but that's not to say it couldn't happen on a service block.
I've seen several CE8xxxx blocks, confiming it was implemented for 68 model year.

But, the data shows that they modified the CE stamp procedure.
CE blocks have CE9B46015, CE0A965 0 9,  and CE72 502 stamped on them. Those do not follow the procedure that is outlined.

Here's a pic of that last stamp:
2904  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / New Decode pages on: March 10, 2007, 02:04:22 PM
The general Decode page received a major revision and I split apart the drivetrain info into a new Drivetrain page, with a lot of pictures and which includes all the 67-69 axle codes.
This change to the pages also changed the header links that are at the top of the pages.

Let us know if you find any errant links or errors in the pages.

2905  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Warranty Engines on: March 08, 2007, 11:07:38 AM
I take the GA law to mean that you couldn't have 20 service engines all stamped T1010EE, they had to be uniquely stamped. And that unique # was then traceable to being installed in xxx VIN car.
Don't quote out of context; "prohibit duplicating serial numbers of like components" is different than "prohibit duplicating serial numbers". Smiley

Federal law already made sure that all factory engines were uniquely stamped - with the VIN. This was only for service
2906  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Warranty Engines on: March 08, 2007, 02:26:12 AM
Fran was able to scan the docs to me (Yeah!) and here they are. I linked them since I left them a little large to be clearly legible.

Thank you for sharing these docs with us Fran!

And I don't think any other government ever required this, hence why it faded away and the traceability between the CE engine and VIN was not maintained (or if it was, it wasn't a priority).
2907  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Warranty Engines on: March 07, 2007, 03:58:08 PM
I remember this GA state law. It's shown up in some other docs, IIRC. Seems like there was some efforts to comply with it, but it didn't go far.

It's hard to draw conclusions without seeing the context of those quotes.

Unfortunately, I don't think Fran has the capabilities of scanning documents and I don't live near enough to help. Smiley
2908  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 z28 on: March 06, 2007, 01:45:29 AM
Who was or is responsible for inspecting and verifing this informaton? Was there docurmentation that goes with the car when delivered to the dealer or customer? Is this the documentation you require to verify and enter a z28 into the registry?

That's an interesting question to which I would love to hear an answer.  Do cars that have an X code but lack all drive train components qaulify?  How about LA cars that may have a correct engine but no codes?  I realize there are a lot of things to look at that help determine the legitimacy of a car (Z/28 or SS or ??) but I'd be very curious to learn the criteria that the CRG uses to qualify a car's entry into the DB (Short of Jerry inspecting and vetting each entry).

Given the much larger number of '69 Z's produced I would expect to see more in the DB.

Please note, this is not to nit pick the CRG but rather to understand the process.
We are talking apples and oranges here.
dab67's question asked about how cars get into the registry. I assume Jerry was anwering for the 67 Z registry. I'm not sure what is required for the 68 Z registry.

The database has no such requirements. It was designed from the beginning as a database for research, not a registry.
The lack of criteria is its strength. You pour in a lot of data, some of it good and some bad, and with enough data and the right analysis, you can discover new things.
If you only put in what you know is true, then it only tells you what you know. Smiley
2909  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 67 z28 on: March 06, 2007, 01:28:48 AM
That's not many '68 Zs considering the size of the DB??
No, it isn't.
The db has some distortions in it. One of them is that 68's (all) are underrepresented.
2910  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Rallye green 69 Z on: March 06, 2007, 01:25:08 AM
Are there any production figure breakdowns based on color? Just wondering how rare the Rallye Green color was?
There's no production #'s, but this color data was generated (by me) using the CRG database:
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