I am stating here and now that holding guys against their theories right in the middle of formulation ( however long that takes) is against the unwritten rules.. Your response above about the answers you received 5 years ago bleeds to the fact that now you are soiling a major attempt at fact finding with your hard line nonsense about how things cannot be instead of how thing may have been.. nobody knows but clearly you don't have any curiosity, you only want to sound more knowledgeable to the readers and gain something from that.. I will never stop looking.. Phil clearly refuses to accept the never never attitude of the collective CRG and the dead stopping of theories you are famous for.. this above post makes that abundantly clear... Your response had you been a curious Pacecar lover would have been " whats the progress?" "anything I can do?" etc etc.. but its always always negative... you force people to venture forth without you.. and that in part has created Phils book.. I suppose thanks are in order because your hard line facts ( thats are now in questions on a few fronts at least ) have boxed you in... a lack of open mindedness and a lack of desire to find amazing anomalies is now and will forever be your Achilles Heel..

Your collective group has many boundless mistakes that I've never been admitted to.. I, on the other hand simply use the excuse that I'm still searching...thats openmindedness

Gary will NOT be doing this method with his 04A Festival Pacecar in the coming years...

Garys car

Good Morning guys..  Well my Pacer thats finished was done to " drive" and practice on for when I do my Festival car.. Thanks for the compliments on my first attempt.. I think it came out great and is quite a nod to all that Happened those months in Indy... I like it but I built it my way

My friend Gary Bieler on the other hand built his Norwood car following John Z's recollections of the plant he visited in 69 so he could live the experience as best he could.. He spent an abundance of time building it Los Angeles style and should be apologized to by all of you for being so insistent that John was right all those years with zero wavering...Thats why at my site we at least try most of the time to be open minded about changes and unkowns

The enamel thing is going SLOWLY with no reasons exposed to date as to why that or something else so special happened that they stopped Pacer production completely the following week.. OR it took that next week to finish the 03C's.. I can't wait to someday find the truth.. you on the other hand already know it couldn't happen because you were there I suppose

I have a picture of Garys endeavor that I will post if needed..

tmodel66? no.. the end results are the same.. You of course have no interest in building them trying to follow the Norwood timeline.. and thats OK.. funny why all of you loved the timeline so much though... I guess up until recently?

I'd like to apologize to all the members of this forum who think they are " CRG Guys "  My verb-age was directed strictly to the " Core Members" (for lack of a better word) or better: The guys that can actually see the data base and make decisions.. Not just posting active members...

To the fellows that do not understand, I agree that all finished Camaros look alike and that its the restoration and journey getting there that matters to hard corel Camaro restorers... I am sorry you don't understand that aspect.. It very rewarding to attempt to restore in the same sequence Chevy did.. I realize many of you don't restore.. I should have realized your cyber only. Again.. sorry

Tom McGinnity

Oh and by the way.. I am the guy that asked the painted trim tag question... I stood there before dozens of these guys and the agreed to answer was " So we could see the tag ".. and yes they were the Chevy side guys.. You can get in your car and drive to Norwood next year and ask the same question again if you'd like.. And if you start with the I'm too poor or busy bologney then PM me and I'll do what I can to get you there myself

Know that Phil Borris does not own these guys.. He does not have a contract or lock on their attention.. He's quite simply the first guy to man up and use his own money, time and lifesblood to do it.. These retirees will sit with any single one of you and be your friend,,, they will thank you for coming and thank you for caring about what they did for a living... they will

Do it before you embarrass yourselves any further

ARG is exactly where they pushed the engineless gliders.. Its where they sent an amazing amount of cars for repair... The reason for AGR was to FIX an imperfect system... imperfect.. get it? just like a human being.. imperfect

I feel bad that things have come to this embarrassing impasse.. I bore witness to Phil researching this plant over the last bunch of years and watched as Kurt was all but begged to jump on board and right the wrongs... For many years I have been at odds with these guys about the huge lack of inclusion of " The Human Element " that belongs in this hobby.. I was very very irritated when friends of mine restored cars according to Johns assembly process as if it were gospel...only to find out they suffered through a subframe up built for nothing. I have personally been belittled by ALL CRG guys ( except for John whose been very nice to me )on many occasions..
I can absolutely appreciate and understand when a guy like John appears that someone should embrace and capture the knowledge... But to always take the hard line and the" I know and you don't" attitude is going to be this groups undoing... and very soon.
I am completely mystified why every single core member of this website has stopped short of embracing these terrific guys from Norwood..I'm shocked that these guys have not taken up residency for each Gathering and collected their own info from the retirees. For two years now I have gone and had these fine fellows nearly all to myself.. Brian Henderson and I ask the craziest questions and get either and honest " I don't know " and a fantastically simple answer.. All of you guys are cheating yourselves out of finding that pot of gold you've always longed for in this hobby..

I watched this thread carefully and am happy with the outcome. I thank the CRG guys for staying strong with all the diversions. I've made it my lifes mission with regards to the time I have available for hobby & leisure to get the word out and promote the genuine uniqueness of the 67 Camaro as Pacecar. Maybe it is just a curse on me but theres more often than not heated discussions revolving around the 67 IPC? I know its a massive gray area and for 2 decades misinformation has spread rampant... but eventually, rest assured ,the truths will come out. I personally find it difficult (as bias as I am) to even begin to find valid comparisons between a car ( Grumpys) that was "first" to hit the battlefields of Drag Racing to #92 (Charleys) that was the darling of the world wide televised biggest single day sporting event in the history of civilization, whose reengineering after it was built is second to none in my mind.. An analogy I suppose is comparing Joe Frasier to Marylin Monroe...Both human,both great, but the comparisons stop there