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61  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Z10 on: October 23, 2013, 03:35:15 PM
Now, I may be wrong here, but I am willing to bet this car was once a small block/automatic car.  First, the fact that the tunnel and pedals are for an automatic kinda back up this point.  If the tunnel was replaced or patched, then they did a darn nice job and I cannot see any seams that would indicate a patch put in place.  The hole on the tunnel is for an automatic as well.  Also, I have been tracking Z11's and Z10's for several years now and have a reasonable list going.  One thing I have noticed is that with the Z10's, they are built in lots of small blocks and big blocks, meaning that they did not build just one big block Z10 in the middle of a small block Z10 run and reverse.  In my list, I see several 350's being made, and then several 396's being made.  If this car were indeed a 396 car, it would be the only big block car made in the middle of a small block z10 production run.

Again, my list is not complete and comprenhensive, but if I go by the info I do have, than this car is either a small block car, or an anomoly. 

For the seller to advertise this car as a big block/manual trans car seems to be sketchy to me.  He advertises the engine and trans as "date coded" but cannot verify the partial VIN.  Without the drivetrain in place, no one can make this claim.  Having a date coded engine and trans does not mean the car is originally a big block car with manual transmission.  This car may very well have been a small block car with auto transmission.  The items that would indicate this car as a big block or a manual transmission car are somehow missing or in contradiciton.  The lack of the heater box, the pedals and trans tunnel for an automatic, etc.   

Also, according to the info I have, this car should have a black custom (comfortweave) interior, not white as provided with the car. 

Again, I may be wrong.  I can only go on what limited information I have. 
62  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: maybe i can get on: October 19, 2013, 02:39:48 PM
Okay, so which is the faster car?  According to what I have read...the Z28 is has a biggern engine, is faster and is more expensive than the ZL1...The world no longer makes sense.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2013/03/2014-chevrolet-camaro-z28-faster-than-zl1.html

http://wot.motortrend.com/totd-2014-chevrolet-camaro-z28-or-zl1-which-would-you-pick-417027.html#axzz2iCKYSb00

I suppose the Z28 is a stripped down purely track car, whereas the ZL1 is an all out fast street/strip/touring car?  Am I wrong.

And for the record, please tell me the renderings for the 2016 prototype Camaro is not true....ewwwwww.

63  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: NEED HELP ASAP!!! Photos of 69 Hockey Stripe - Baldwin Motion stripe too? on: October 16, 2013, 06:34:40 PM
I ordered the stencil kit from Stencils & Stripes Unlimited and I have to say, I am not impressed with the quality in the least.  First, the fender stencil part of the stripe is in three (3) pieces, instead of one stencil.  This means that midway along the fender, you have to either butt the stencil stripes together, or overlap them, which means there will be a small section of the stripe where paint bleeds over giving a less than optimal result.  Why this is not in one long piece is baffling to me.  Also, the die cut portion was not cut all the way thru on the stencil part from the curved part of the hockey stick on back.  It kept tearing the stencil every time I tried to pull away the portion of the stencil that is supposed to be removed.  I kept cutting where the die cut mark was and would pull back only to get about an inch or so, and tear the stencil at what should have been a die cut line.  This happened about 5 times before I just gave up and tore off the stencil altogether and simply free handed the stripe.  This was on both sides. 

Next, there was a big issue with the door part of the stencil.  I am not sure if it was a mistake, but it looks like I got the stencil for the DX1 stiriping for the hood instead as the stencil is about 18" longer than the door stencil.  Normally, this would not be a problem, as one would think they could simply cut the stencil to proper length so that the point of the stencil at the door handle is correct and the stencil gets cut off at the door edge for proper length.  However, because the stripe tapers down and gets smaller as it goes toward the rear of the car, the width of the stripe where the door ends at the fender is not the same as the stencil on the fender itself.  Again, this was an issue on both sides.  In order to fix this, I had to pull the stencil from the fender all the way back to the door handle and free hand it back to the fender in order to get the proper width that will meet up correctly with the fender stencil.  At this point, one must wonder why a stencil is being used, as everything that is supposed to be the benefit of using a stencil is lost, due to the fact I have to keep pulling the stencil back several feet and free handing it so it meets up correctly.

Finally, the top of the stencil along the fender that is supposed to be aligned with the top edge of the fender is not straight at all.  The top alignment cut of the stencil goes from 5/8" to 1/4" and back to 5/8" again.  If I had laid the stencil as instructed and used the top body line as a guide, my stripe would have been high at the front, dipped down in the middle, and raised back up toward the rear of the fender.  This would have looked terrible.  Again, what is the benefit of a stencil kit, if I constantly have to keep pulling back and free handing the tape line.  Of course, this last issue was not really a problem in the end, as even though I corrected this when laying out the stencil, the die cut line was not cut all the way thru and I had to remove the entire stencil and free hand the entire stripe with my own roll of 3m tape.   I could not use the fender stencil, as the stencil lacked of proper die cut would not allow me to peel back the area that was to be painted along the stripe portion of the stencil that was to remain in place. 

All in all, I would never again buy this kit from them.  The stencils are not properly die cut, are not the correct length, do not have the proper guide line at the top for following the edge of the fender, the directions are horrible, and the only measurements they give is from a copy of a copy of a copy of the assembly manual, which is to say, quite poor looking.   

What is really sad, is that I spoke to Ralph who works at Stencils & Stripes Unlimited, before I purchased and was assured by him I would receive nothing but a top quality stencil kit  This is NOT what I got.  Me and the painter ended up spending more time trying to lay out this stencil and making it work, only to end up doing most of it in free hand with a roll of 3M tape.  If we had simply free handed to entire thing instead of relying on the stencil kit,  I would have saved time and money.  The paint shop was supposed to paint the stripes and clear them in a single afternoon.  But due to the time it took to lay out the stencils, diiscover the defect in the stencil kit, remove the stencils, and free hand everything, there was no time to do the painting and clearing before the end of the work day.  So now my Camaro is in paint jail an extra day and will have to be painted and cleared tomorrow morning.  I have also been reminded by the paint shop owner that they had budgetted a certain amount of paint booth time in my estimate, as they planned to have my car out of the booth tonight and another car scheduled for the booth tomorrow morning, that will now not be happening.  I will have to compensate them for this additional timeas well as the additional time the paint shop spent correcting this mess with the stencils to begin with.   

At this point, I am going to call Ralph and request an entire refund and will gladly send him back my unused stencils, along with photos of my issues encountered and my free handed striping, to show his kit was not used entirely.  I hope they will make this right.  I will report back and let you guys know the outcome. 

64  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: NEED HELP ASAP!!! Photos of 69 Hockey Stripe - Baldwin Motion stripe too? on: October 12, 2013, 12:11:26 AM
Actually, it's not black, but charcoal gray metallic pearl.  Looks dull with this lighting, but in the sun...OMG.
65  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Suggestions Wanted For 1969 Camaro Custom Paint Design on: October 11, 2013, 07:17:02 PM
Hey x77-69z28, this is the result of your suggestion.  I was not even thinking Baldwin Motion until you mentioned it.  I'm glad you did.  It is certainly not a common theme, which I am surprised.  And these colors I picked, I assure you, the photos do no give justice.  These colors have a darn good amount of metallic and pearl.  In the sun, they come out and just grab you.  Once it's all done, I will take some really good photos that really show it off and post them.  I feel like a kid on the night before Christmas...I can NOT wait for this to get out of the paint shop and completed. 

So, a big thanks to you.  Your suggestion made what would have been just another 69 Camaro into something truly awesome.  THANK YOU!!!  Smiley
66  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Suggestions Wanted For 1969 Camaro Custom Paint Design on: October 11, 2013, 05:30:08 PM
More Pics...
67  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: NEED HELP ASAP!!! Photos of 69 Hockey Stripe - Baldwin Motion stripe too? on: October 11, 2013, 05:13:49 PM
Got the Baldwin Motion Stripes setup great.  However, I could not get the hockey stick stripe to look proper.  I got the door and fender part looking almost perfect, but could not get the curves of the front of the stripe to look quite right.  I kept making it look like the letter "L".  I finally gave up and ordered the stencil kit from Stencils & Stripes Unlimited.  I went with them because they sell the hockey stick stripe without the engine ID cutout, as I want simple the hockey stripe with no interruptions as I have no emblems on the car.

For everyone who helped, I thank you immensely.  Getting the sizes of the BM stripes was very helpful.  Also, I hope I got the curves on the rear stripe rigth, as there are no photos anywhere on the internet that I could find that showed how the striped curved toward the rear window. 

Here are some pics from this morning to show the progress so far.  What do you guys think?  What is the opinion on blacking out the tailpan and the rockers?
68  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: NEED HELP ASAP!!! Photos of 69 Hockey Stripe - Baldwin Motion stripe too? on: October 11, 2013, 07:39:27 AM
Got what I needed.  Thanks guys.

69  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: December 68 Pacer on Ebay again. on: October 10, 2013, 02:24:23 AM
As to one of your beliefs, Indy Pace Cars do have factory 10-bolts.  I am the second owner of my Indy Pace Car and it is numbers matching, and has the original 350/300hp "HE" engine (HE means 300hp with PG), a powerglide 2-speed transmission, and a 10-bolt 3:08 rear with posi (which I think is dealer installed as it's stamped PG, but also has the "D" for Dana stamp as well.  Why someone would equip a Camaro to this extent, but leave the 2-speed PG alone, I find amazing.  And of course, if you got the PG, the 10-bolt was standard for that transmission.  I have documented the partial VIN and date codes, and it's real.  So it's okay to believe, it's okay to believe, believe, believe...

To make up for it though, I have the very rare column shifter, no console, and shoulder belts.  (and by rare, I mean as it who in their right mind would order a combo like this?  No one...that's why it's rare...not for the good reason.
70  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: December 68 Pacer on Ebay again. on: October 09, 2013, 10:42:52 PM
I contacted the seller and as politely as I could tell him, advised him that this was not a real Z11.  He replied and is adamant about this Camaro being a genuine Z11.  If someone buys this Camaro believing it to be a real Z11, and later finds out the real truth, he would have a successful lawsuit on his hands.  Here is the exchange:

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
From: sdkarTo: themotormastersSubject: Other: sdkar sent a message about Chevrolet : Camaro Leather #171142886048Sent Date: Oct-09-13 09:55:33 PDT

Dear themotormasters,

Please, do not take this email in any negative fashion, but one of simply giving info of which you may or may not be aware.

This is not a real Z11. It is very nice, but it needs to be advertised as not a real Z11. I am a person who is an avid Camaro collector & in the legal field. I personally own a 69 pace car & I am quite familiar with them. If you sell this car without disclaiming it, you hold yourself out for liability. I have personally been involved in several suits in which dealers have sold cars as one thing, when they were in fact something else entirely. It cost the dealer quite a bit of money when all was done.

As a dealer, you are held to a higher standard, & even if you claim ignorance, you are still liable. Also, if the buyer is out of state, you can be hailed into the court of that state, not your own.

I say this to avoid an unhappy buyer, a fine seller of classics harmed, & the hobby exposed to bad reputations.

If you have any questions, please ask.
- sdkar   
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________                 
From: eBay Member: themotormasters <member@ebay.com>
To: sdkarebay@bellsouth.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: Other: sdkar sent a message about Chevrolet : Camaro Leather #171142886048
                       
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. Learn more.
Seller has responded to your question about this item   

Dear sdkar,

Hello and thank you for the email. I appreciate your concern and appreciate looking out for us as we are honest car dealers, but this is an actual Z11 Pace Car. The tag that is located on the firewall confirms this. Hagerty personally inspected and insured the car as proof, which was for $51575. I will email you the Hagerty report if you would like.

Philip
- themotormasters
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

sdkar response:
Philip,
 
I promise you, this car is fake.  The trim tag is an obvious fake.  I have over 500 documented 69 Camaro pace cars in my own data base, and there is not one single pace car prior to the third week of January.  If you want to know for sure this car is not a real Z11, I urge to contact Jerry MacNeish.  You can reach him by phone at (410) 781-0418.  His website is the following:
 
http://www.z28camaro.com/consvcs.html
 
I would not have written you if I was not sure.  Jerry MacNeish, in my opinion, is the absolute authority on first generation Camaros, and has been used in legal matters where no one can refute his opinion. In fact, I am willing to put my money where my mouth is.  If you hire Jerry, and he states your car is a real Z11, I will pay his entire bill and give you $500 for your trouble.  That is how sure I am.
 
Again, your business and I will not tell a man how to run his own affairs.  I am simply trying to help avoid what could be a bad situation.  Also, I have found in my research, that this car has been flagged as a counterfeit in many of the camaro websites.  Thus, whoever buys this car is very likely to find out its true origin if they do even the slightest amount of research. 
 
Again, I am simply sharing with you, my knowledge.  What you do is your business. 
 
Take care.
 
Steve
 
 



 
71  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: NEED HELP ASAP!!! Photos of 69 Hockey Stripe - Baldwin Motion stripe too? on: October 09, 2013, 10:07:33 PM
Most of all, I need just a single photo of the end of the hockey stick stripe on the door.  I know it has a unique point, and need to try and match it as close as possible.  If anyone can send a close-up of this one single item, I would be forever in your debt.

Thanks,

Steve
72  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: NEED HELP ASAP!!! Photos of 69 Hockey Stripe - Baldwin Motion stripe too? on: October 09, 2013, 07:28:51 PM
C'mon guys, surely someone has one close-up pic of the point of the stripe on the door.  I just need to see how it's pointed. 
73  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Stripe dimensions for Baldwin Motion? on: October 09, 2013, 06:45:12 PM
If you have any of the magazines you can scan and post here or send me, that would be great.

Thanks,

Steve
sdkar@bellsouth.net
74  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Suggestions Wanted For 1969 Camaro Custom Paint Design on: October 09, 2013, 02:56:11 PM
The photos are not the best as the reflection of the bldg make the paint look dark.  The passenger side may be a better view.  I assure you this is a very bright metallic silver.  The stripes will be a dark charcoal/gray pearl.

In fact here are the color codes.

Main color:  Light Spiral Silver GM WA813K    (2003 - 2013 Corvette)
Stripes:  Dark Graphite Gray Pearl TOY/LEX 1C6   

 
75  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / NEED HELP ASAP!!! Photos of 69 Hockey Stripe - Baldwin Motion stripe too? on: October 09, 2013, 02:44:45 PM
Hey guys, I am going to the paint shop tomorrow (Thursday, Oct 10) to lay out the stripes on my Camaro.  I have lots of decent photos, but cannot find any good close-ups of the hockey stripe on the door.  If anyone can send me a couple of good photos of this area, as well as maybe some measurements (ie: how wide at the fender/door area, how far from the back edge of the door, etc.), I would be forever in your debt. 

Also, since this is going to be a Baldwin Motion paint scheme, if anyone has any photos and/or measurements of the BM stripes, please forward to me.  Most of all, I am looking for pics of the BM stripe on the trunk lid and how it curves into the large painted stripe area. Any and all photos and measurements are welcome. 

Here is what I am going for. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CJVmY8ee44

Thanks for any and all help.  I promise to post photos next week when its all done.

Send pics and info to:

sdkar@bellsouth.net

Steve
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