Messages

331

Originality / Re: Power steer pump cap

« on: June 15, 2006, 02:18:20 AM »

I found a few plastic caps.  (now that I am looking) 

The longer one came off a 1970 Fleetwood.  --  It is not vented in any way,

The shorter one came off a 1970 Cutlass - This is the same size pump used by Camaro.
This cap is vented all the way down through the center of the tube.

Both tops look identical, except for the hole throught the center of the short one.

332

Restoration / Re: 4 Piston Caliper Rebuild

« on: June 05, 2006, 04:11:52 PM »

Vette Brakes - that is the one to use.

They did my 67 11 years ago - never a problem.
Tell them to rebuild YOUR cores, so you get the same ones back.

333

Originality / Re: Power steer pump cap

« on: May 26, 2006, 06:47:44 PM »

Just got back from my favorite junk yard.

There were some new(old) cars today.
1969 Skylark - Had a metal PS cap
1970 Skylark - Had a plastic PS cap with no inner line.
Grabbed them both. along with everything else I always take. 

Now I know that this does not transfer to the Camaro - but this is what I have been seeing for years.
Additionally - It has always been rare for me to find Camaros that are scrapped.
Used to happen from time to time, but not any more.
So on this particular componet my expertise may not be Camaro.

But typically what I have seen accross the entire GM model lines is: 1969 were metal PS caps.  If the Camaro is different - that is something I would really like to prove.   

Kinda of makes us special.

334

General Discussion / Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...

« on: May 25, 2006, 11:24:26 PM »

I have a good feeling that Kevin is going to do the best thing - whatever he decides.
Those doc's are in good hands. 

335

General Discussion / Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...

« on: May 25, 2006, 06:17:01 PM »

Funny how they seemed to find the original engine. 

A lot of money for a wrong motor, wrong paint, wrong interior "candidate for restoration" car.

That guy is a wheeler dealer. The POP find is actually his worst daydream.
Now he will have to admit that it has a replacement block.
Don't send it to him he may destroy it.

336

General Discussion / Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...

« on: May 25, 2006, 04:32:36 PM »

Don't say a word to the dealer - he will just raise the price.
Wait till the sale is done, and contact the new owner.

Or, tell your friends (like me!!) here on this site all about this car, so someone here may buy it. 
PM me - I am in the market - What body style? What engine?

337

Originality / Re: Power steer pump cap

« on: May 25, 2006, 02:45:40 PM »

Another interesting thing I noticed...
In the 1969 Assembly manual the part number for the PS Pump is different for the L6 and the V8 engines.

L6 calls for pump #7805653 Pump Asm.
V8 calls for pump #7805656 Pump Asm.
V8 w396 calls for pump 7806370 pump asm.
This is all found in the N40 Section.

The picture of those V8 pumps are illustrated with a design shape that wasn't used until 1975.

I really think the PS pump was redesigned for the 1969 Small block heads with the accessory holes.
and ........
The newly designed pump was produced with a new plastic cap.

The listing application does not show a separate part# for the cap, so the caps were likely already attached to the pumps when delivered from the manufacturer.

The P&A book listing # may only be for the replacement items if only the cap was needed.
So it may be very likely that SB V8's 302 350 327 got a plastic cap and all others L6 and BB V8's 396's 427's got the metal one.

Or the pumps may have all been shipped with metal caps untill the supply was used up.

Just "thinking out loud" here, with possibilities.

Somewhere is the internal memos to prove what happened. Someone has them, we just got to find them.

338

Originality / Re: Power steer pump cap

« on: May 24, 2006, 02:16:03 AM »

I am not going to get upset. Want to find out what is right. I have lots of caps laying around, switching would be a very easy fix.
I could use plastic on Thursdays - Saturday, and metal the rest of the week. Makes no difference to me.

(The only thing upsetting to me, is how many plastic caps I let go to the crusher over the years  )

I don't want a guess, or a speculation. I want to prove absolutely what is right.
The true answer is going to come from research. Something it now appears CRG has not really done yet on this topic.  NCRS has been documenting this stuff for 30+ years. CRG will someday get caught up (thats what we are now doing - right?).  No one wants to commit to an answer. So that is enough for me to assume that we really are not sure.

Until we have the verified data in our hands everything is just a guess.
So anyone ready to commit? .... Go ahead - make my day.

The Camaro may have been the first model to use that cap, but there would have to be something out there showing when or why.  An internal memo, a purchase order, or something.

I have pulled metal caps off many a 1969 car. So there must have been a reason to change ONLY the Camaro in Sept. 1968 - 7 months before the Corvette changed.  And Like I said before it may have been the new heads with the accessory holes, and the need to redirect the return fitting.  That would certainly make perfect sense.....

Lets get together and find out why.   

339

Originality / Re: Power steer pump cap

« on: May 24, 2006, 12:26:19 AM »

I find it interesting that there is a mention of a new PS cap in the Sept 68 P/A book.
Looks like it was substituted early. Now I would like to determine just how early.

And why only the Camaro, and not the other models with the Log design manifolds

340

Originality / Re: Power steer pump cap

« on: May 23, 2006, 02:22:56 PM »

846 is metal.
820 is plastic.

At this time till someone can absolutly confirm,
I am going to keep the metal PS cap on my 03B Pace Car.
Sounds like we are just not sure. 

I am going to go with what the NCRS says.

At least untill something can be proved either way.

341

Originality / Re: Power steer pump cap

« on: May 22, 2006, 02:22:00 PM »

Really I am trying to get someone to officially commit "on the record".
Kurt - Is it the CRG's official opinion then, That ALL 1969 Camaros used a plastic PS cap?

As always, there may be few exceptions I know, but for the most part, are you guys saying that:
ALL 1969 Camaros built in California and Ohio used a plastic PS cap.

67/8 used metal, 69 was plastic?. It would make sence because of the new pump design.
But possibly more reasearch needs to be done?  What do you think? 

342

General Discussion / Re: Long Water Pump on 396 in '67 Camaro?

« on: May 22, 2006, 04:44:47 AM »

It will work.
You might have to play with the fan spacer, or clutch a bit to make everything fit under the shroud properly. But like HR68 said - It really won't be right.

343

Originality / Re: Power steer pump cap

« on: May 22, 2006, 04:40:26 AM »

So it sounds to me like the metal cap was still being used untill May 1970,
or at least untill mid year 69, just like the NCRS has documented in the Corvettes. Kinda what I thought.

No reason to be anythiing different. There were not two caps being used.
So at some point, all GM models went to a plastic cap.

344

Originality / Re: Power steer pump cap

« on: May 19, 2006, 06:35:41 PM »

For example, 307 engine showed up in GM product in 1968, but not in Camaros until Jan 1969.  350 engines showed up in Camaros in 1967, but not in some of the other GM products until much later.
In this case, the question is, did the black plastic PS Pump Cap become "standard issue" for the 69 Camaro perhaps earlier than others.

What we have to remember, this cap is an accessory item, not a new engine, or a newly available option. At some point the PS pump manufacturer started using a plastic cap on the pumps they were supplying to GM.  The new cap would pretty much be used across all model lines. It was likely cheaper (and it worked better) to make the plastic cap, so that was why it was changed.

Items like that are requisitioned up in large batches.
However the 1969 PS pumps are slightly different then the 67/68 pump - that may have had something to do with it. The rear return outlet was redesigned to accommodate the accessory holes that were now being provided in the cylinder heads.

Maybe with the new pump design, came the new cap?  Just a thought for consideration.

Maybe the old caps were used up, before the new caps were used?
Maybe both caps were being install at the same time? Maybe not?

345

Originality / Re: Power steer pump cap

« on: May 18, 2006, 09:00:51 PM »

Wait a minute?....I am not convinced yet.

The NCRS documented that the change from metal to plastic was in mid year 1969.
I believe the Camaro would have to be the same, should be the same.
I would really need more examples, or a "real definitive" answer from Kurt or John. 

The metal caps came off pretty easily, so even a documented all original car, could have lost it's PS cap back in 1970. The plastic ones held on much better. I have even lost a few metal ones here and there.