1096
Originality / Re: Please see picture of my 327 - question on originality
« on: February 13, 2006, 05:57:11 PM »
Pic #4 Same note applies as indicated in pic #3.
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1097
Originality / Re: Please see picture of my 327 - question on originality
« on: February 13, 2006, 05:56:28 PM »
Pic #3, Transmission mounted. Note valve covers are not the ones in pics #1 and #2. They are spares that were used during the engine installation. Restored valve covers mounted later after engine and transmission were installed.
1098
Originality / Re: Please see picture of my 327 - question on originality
« on: February 13, 2006, 05:47:03 PM »
Pic #2
1099
Originality / Re: Please see picture of my 327 - question on originality
« on: February 13, 2006, 05:46:27 PM »
Although you didn't state it, since the oil fill tube is in the front of the intake, this isn't a 69.
Attached to this e-mail is a pic of the correct 327 - 210 HP engine for a 69. I will post 3 additional pics in seperate posts to follow. The engine pictured is the correct engine for my 69 RS, which I installed last summer. My car has a PowerGlide, so it also has the heat tube / snorkel assembly to the air cleaner EFE (early fuel evaporative) system. To the best of my knowledge, 3 spd manual cars did not have EFE.
I think that in '68, the air cleaner was turned in the opposite direction, with the snorkel pointing toward the driver side. I have what I believe is a '68 air cleaner and it is oriented that way. Never confirmed it though once I realized it was not the correct air cleaner for my car.
Attached to this e-mail is a pic of the correct 327 - 210 HP engine for a 69. I will post 3 additional pics in seperate posts to follow. The engine pictured is the correct engine for my 69 RS, which I installed last summer. My car has a PowerGlide, so it also has the heat tube / snorkel assembly to the air cleaner EFE (early fuel evaporative) system. To the best of my knowledge, 3 spd manual cars did not have EFE.
I think that in '68, the air cleaner was turned in the opposite direction, with the snorkel pointing toward the driver side. I have what I believe is a '68 air cleaner and it is oriented that way. Never confirmed it though once I realized it was not the correct air cleaner for my car.
1100
Restoration / Re: Installation of factory tach and center fuel gauge in 69
« on: February 07, 2006, 06:23:57 PM »
I did this about 10 years ago and it is not all that difficult. After removing my dash mounted fuel gage, the opening had to be enlarged in order to accomodate a tach. This was easily accomplished, with care, with a hole saw. Before modifying the cluster in my car, I had picked up a damaged one from a junk yard that had several Camaros in it. I practiced the cut, tach fit, etc on the damage cluster before cutting on the one in my car. I mainly wanted to verify the fit of the tack in the dash panel after the enlarging the opening. All went well.
My car came with a console. As a part of the effort, was the installation of console gages. The gage kit came with an extension harness to wire the gages into the existing console harness. The wire from to the fuel gage had to be re routed from the dash to the console - no problem - all went well. The oil pressure connection is pvc tubing fromt he back of the block, throught the firewall directly to the gage. Temp gage wiring was already there. Simply re-routed it from the idiot light in the dash down to the console and replaced the sending unit from the on/off type for the idiot light to the proper sending unit for the gage.
So far, so good - The ammeter gage in the console required new wiring to be routed into the car and properly terminated in the engine compartment. For the tach, a seperate lead was run through the firewall to the coil. Some spaghetti, but not too bad, and all worked well.
Where it really got good was from 2004 to mid 2005 when I completely disassembled the front of the car back to the firewall. I replaced both engine compartment wiring harnesses. The replacement engine harness was purchased for a car with console gages. This harness has the tach, ammeter, temp gage wiring as an integral part of the harness - which completely cleaned up the engine compartment. Under the dash, instead having to run the ammeter and tach wiring through the dash, they simply terminate at the proper locations on the dash side of the fuse block. Engine wiring harnes plugs into the engine side of the fuse block and all is as GM originally designed it.
Good luck on the update - take your time - no big deal.
My car came with a console. As a part of the effort, was the installation of console gages. The gage kit came with an extension harness to wire the gages into the existing console harness. The wire from to the fuel gage had to be re routed from the dash to the console - no problem - all went well. The oil pressure connection is pvc tubing fromt he back of the block, throught the firewall directly to the gage. Temp gage wiring was already there. Simply re-routed it from the idiot light in the dash down to the console and replaced the sending unit from the on/off type for the idiot light to the proper sending unit for the gage.
So far, so good - The ammeter gage in the console required new wiring to be routed into the car and properly terminated in the engine compartment. For the tach, a seperate lead was run through the firewall to the coil. Some spaghetti, but not too bad, and all worked well.
Where it really got good was from 2004 to mid 2005 when I completely disassembled the front of the car back to the firewall. I replaced both engine compartment wiring harnesses. The replacement engine harness was purchased for a car with console gages. This harness has the tach, ammeter, temp gage wiring as an integral part of the harness - which completely cleaned up the engine compartment. Under the dash, instead having to run the ammeter and tach wiring through the dash, they simply terminate at the proper locations on the dash side of the fuse block. Engine wiring harnes plugs into the engine side of the fuse block and all is as GM originally designed it.
Good luck on the update - take your time - no big deal.
1101
Originality / Re: 68 RS 327 Cooling Fan Type
« on: February 07, 2006, 04:16:50 PM »
Check out the CRG report section on cooling systems at this link:
http://www.camaros.org/coolingsystems.shtml
Appears to me that you need the 4 blade fan with spacer.
Let me know if you need a 4 blade fan / spacer. I have a spare set.
http://www.camaros.org/coolingsystems.shtml
Appears to me that you need the 4 blade fan with spacer.
Let me know if you need a 4 blade fan / spacer. I have a spare set.
1102
General Discussion / Re: tracing history
« on: February 07, 2006, 04:09:22 PM »
It has gotten to be very difficult. After I purchased my 69 RS back in Nov 1991, I began the process of tracing its history. At the time I lived in Baton Rouge, LA and traced the car back through 3 previous owners by going to the DMV in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Pennsylvania. Was able to trace it back to a person in Chambersburg, PA who owned the car from April 1983 - Dec 1985. Couldn't go back any further as the PA DMV told me that their records, at that time, didn't go back any further. That previous records had been lost due to some occurrence, a fire I believe. In any event, I realize this doesn't help your effort any, but like your PA title, where you had a F indicated, mine had a P which indicated that the car was at one time registered to a police department. I've always wondered what that was all about. Hard to understand why a police department would titale a 69 RS. In any event, one of those little historical items lost to time.
I also tried a VIN / insurance history check through someone that I knew in the local police department. Nothing on my car showed up. However, a friend of mine, who owned a '67 vette at the time, was able to find out through the VIN / insurance check the original date his car was titled, where it was originally titiled as well as the original GM delaership zone in which the car was sold. If you know someone who would be willing to run this for you, you might get lucky. My understanding is that this is not something that police depts would normally want to do.
Good luck on your search.
I also tried a VIN / insurance history check through someone that I knew in the local police department. Nothing on my car showed up. However, a friend of mine, who owned a '67 vette at the time, was able to find out through the VIN / insurance check the original date his car was titled, where it was originally titiled as well as the original GM delaership zone in which the car was sold. If you know someone who would be willing to run this for you, you might get lucky. My understanding is that this is not something that police depts would normally want to do.
Good luck on your search.
1103
Decoding/Numbers / Re: Help figuring 69 out
« on: February 06, 2006, 10:07:32 PM »
Rebuild cost for the engine was very reasonable. I live about 60 miles due south of Reno, NV which allowed me to use a very reputable shop in Reno to do the rebuild. I brought them the complete engine (which I had pulled out of a 69 Camaro that was being parted out back in 1994) and they gave me back the complete engine (from the intake down to the oil pan) completely assembled and ready to go. In addition to being one of the finer shops in the area, everything was performed in house from the intake to the oil pan. Nothing was sent out. They handled the block, cylinder heads (including opening up the intake valves), machining, balancing, etc. Total cost was less than $2,000. There is an advantage in this area in that quality work is available at a reasonable price due to the high interest in the hobby in this area. I wouldn't expect much difference one way or the other between a 307, 327, or a 350 from the late 60's. All are basically the same engine.
As far as the spin on oil cannister, that went away at the end of the 1968 model year. In 1969, the cannister was replaced with the spin on filter and the oil fill was relocated from the front of the intake manifold to the driver side valve cover. PCV / crankcase ventillation routing was from a seperate filter in the air cleaner on the passenger side, through the passenger side valve cover, through the engine, out the driver side valve cover / PCV valve, to the connection in the back at the base of the carburetor throttle body. Guess my point is, if you have a 69' 327, no oil cannister - it will have a spin on filter and the oil fill is through the driver side valve cover. I've never used one, but I have seen adapters to convert from the cannister to the spin on filter. I believe all you do is screw the adapter plate on first and then the spin on filter mounts directly to the adapter.
As far as the spin on oil cannister, that went away at the end of the 1968 model year. In 1969, the cannister was replaced with the spin on filter and the oil fill was relocated from the front of the intake manifold to the driver side valve cover. PCV / crankcase ventillation routing was from a seperate filter in the air cleaner on the passenger side, through the passenger side valve cover, through the engine, out the driver side valve cover / PCV valve, to the connection in the back at the base of the carburetor throttle body. Guess my point is, if you have a 69' 327, no oil cannister - it will have a spin on filter and the oil fill is through the driver side valve cover. I've never used one, but I have seen adapters to convert from the cannister to the spin on filter. I believe all you do is screw the adapter plate on first and then the spin on filter mounts directly to the adapter.
1104
Decoding/Numbers / Re: Help figuring 69 out
« on: February 06, 2006, 07:01:57 PM »
As you can see from the pic, I left mine "stock" except that the '185 heads easily were enlarged from the original .174 intake valves to .194 and that cam change sure helped the low end out a little more. If I wanted HP as opposed to the originality, change the intake and carb setup - the lower end is ready. But for me - the originality is paramount. So I'll accept good low end performance up to where the carb/intake die at about 4000 rpm. Too much time and effort invested to abuse the car anyway. Great for curisin' - runs a lot better than a lot of "stronger" Camaros I've run across.
1105
Decoding/Numbers / Re: Help figuring 69 out
« on: February 06, 2006, 06:57:35 PM »
Rebuild the 327 - great motor.
1106
General Discussion / Re: Reproduction 1969 Camaro Coupe Shells
« on: February 06, 2006, 06:48:22 PM »
Won't affect the price or desirability of an original 69 at all. A reproduction is still a reproduction - doesn't matter what collector field (cars, antiques, etc) you're into. Repos are just that - and will always command rero prices - not prices based on the real item.
Problem will be those that try to decieve the uninformed by passing of the repro as original --- but that's already an old story that we deal with every day with the existing cloning / decieving issues that are already out there.
Problem will be those that try to decieve the uninformed by passing of the repro as original --- but that's already an old story that we deal with every day with the existing cloning / decieving issues that are already out there.
1107
Restoration / Re: inspection marks
« on: December 23, 2005, 06:33:51 PM »
When I had the front end of my 69 RS Coupe a part last year, I found a "2" or "R" on the left hand (driver) side of the firewall. As you can see from the attached picture, it was not visible until the fender was removed.
To date, no one has been able to identify what this may have meant.
Not sure if this was common or not. My car is an 01C Norwood built unit.
To date, no one has been able to identify what this may have meant.
Not sure if this was common or not. My car is an 01C Norwood built unit.
1108
General Discussion / Re: 69 Rally Sport
« on: December 11, 2005, 04:41:57 AM »
To the best of my knowledge, headlight washers were a standard part of all Z22 Rally Sport cars for 1969. It was the case with my '69 RS Coupe.
Looking at my car, the backup light cut outs in the tailpan valence appear to be flush. However, I've never had them out so I'll defer to someone who knows for sure.
Tried to send you a pic of the backup lights in my car, but for some reason it wouldn't go through.
Looking at my car, the backup light cut outs in the tailpan valence appear to be flush. However, I've never had them out so I'll defer to someone who knows for sure.
Tried to send you a pic of the backup lights in my car, but for some reason it wouldn't go through.
1109
General Discussion / Re: REAR END DATE
« on: December 09, 2005, 11:00:58 PM »
Strange things can happen, though.
Besides my 69 RS coupe, the other car I have is a 66 Chevelle which has been in the family since it was first purchased on March 30,1966. I have all of the original documentation including protect-o-plate and have verified all of the numbers when the car was restored between 1995 and 2000. I even found a date code on the frame. Point is that everything is within a couple of weeks of the mid March 1966 build date at the Flint, MI assembly plant, except for the rear axle which is date coded Oct 1965. Axle date code, etc and POP totally agree. The rear end was build at the Buffalo Gear and Axle Plant and obviously set around somewhere before it made the trip to final assembly.
Besides my 69 RS coupe, the other car I have is a 66 Chevelle which has been in the family since it was first purchased on March 30,1966. I have all of the original documentation including protect-o-plate and have verified all of the numbers when the car was restored between 1995 and 2000. I even found a date code on the frame. Point is that everything is within a couple of weeks of the mid March 1966 build date at the Flint, MI assembly plant, except for the rear axle which is date coded Oct 1965. Axle date code, etc and POP totally agree. The rear end was build at the Buffalo Gear and Axle Plant and obviously set around somewhere before it made the trip to final assembly.
1110
Decoding/Numbers / Re: VIN number matching trim tag
« on: December 09, 2005, 07:20:17 PM »
The folllowing can be found on the old forum. I have included JohnZ's reply to the second post. The entire string, for both posts, are relevant to the topic here, FYI.
FIRST POST VIN and Build Dates
Posted By: sdkar <sdkar@bellsouth.net>
Date: 8-March-05, 16:31
I have a 69 Camaro Pace Car with a build date of 04C and a VIN of 636XXX. I found another Pace Car for sale with a build date of 04C as well but with a VIN of 628065. I am under the belief that this VIN would have to be an early April car. Is it possible that this is perfectly okay? Is there someplace where the VIN's are broken down by month and week?
Steve
SECOND POST Final Assembly Build Date
Posted By: yock <yock@kuchera.com>
Date: 29-December-04, 17:06
I recently bought a 69 Z-28. I have two questions that I hope someone can help me with. the first question is,:
Is there a differance between the body build date ( on cowl tag) and the final assembly date for the complete vehicle. If there is a differance, where could a person locate the final assembly date for the complete vehicle.
The second question is,:
Were the partial VIN numbers near the small block oil filter gang stamped. The partial VIN numbers on my 69 302 engine has a few numbers that are very readable and a few that are sort of readable and a few that are not very readable. They appear to be in a straight line.
Thank you
re: Final Assembly Build Date
Posted By: JohnZ <Snake488@aol.com>
Date: 30-December-04, 10:55
The final assembly build date can be estimated within about a week. The week shown on the trim tag is when the body was welded together; the final assembly date is generally 3-4 days after that. Since the tag build date could be any day of that particular week, the final assembly date could be as early as 3-4 days after the first day of the tag week, or it could be 3-4 days after the last day of the tag week.
FIRST POST VIN and Build Dates
Posted By: sdkar <sdkar@bellsouth.net>
Date: 8-March-05, 16:31
I have a 69 Camaro Pace Car with a build date of 04C and a VIN of 636XXX. I found another Pace Car for sale with a build date of 04C as well but with a VIN of 628065. I am under the belief that this VIN would have to be an early April car. Is it possible that this is perfectly okay? Is there someplace where the VIN's are broken down by month and week?
Steve
SECOND POST Final Assembly Build Date
Posted By: yock <yock@kuchera.com>
Date: 29-December-04, 17:06
I recently bought a 69 Z-28. I have two questions that I hope someone can help me with. the first question is,:
Is there a differance between the body build date ( on cowl tag) and the final assembly date for the complete vehicle. If there is a differance, where could a person locate the final assembly date for the complete vehicle.
The second question is,:
Were the partial VIN numbers near the small block oil filter gang stamped. The partial VIN numbers on my 69 302 engine has a few numbers that are very readable and a few that are sort of readable and a few that are not very readable. They appear to be in a straight line.
Thank you
re: Final Assembly Build Date
Posted By: JohnZ <Snake488@aol.com>
Date: 30-December-04, 10:55
The final assembly build date can be estimated within about a week. The week shown on the trim tag is when the body was welded together; the final assembly date is generally 3-4 days after that. Since the tag build date could be any day of that particular week, the final assembly date could be as early as 3-4 days after the first day of the tag week, or it could be 3-4 days after the last day of the tag week.