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112292 Posts in 12900 Topics by 4937 Members
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1156  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Correct shifter on: June 18, 2006, 12:05:20 PM
My experience with Muncie shifters is based on 36 years of experience with 1st gen Camaros. I was involved with a Camaro business for 15 years and dismantled many factory Muncie shifters in a effort to acquire enough good parts to assemble a useable unit for a customer that just had to have one.

In that time I never saw a factory Hurst unit that needed more than cleaning and linkage bushings.

A nearby parts store had a sign:

"There are two kinds of oats. Fresh oats, and oats that have already been through the horse. The latter are much cheaper."

Muncie shifters have already been through the horse.
1157  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Anyone know what a factory 427 goes for nowadays? on: June 18, 2006, 11:51:56 AM
There are 3 architectures for 60s-70s big-block Chevy engines:

-oval port
These are general performance passenger car/light-duty truck engines offered in all displacements: 396, 402, 427, 454. They typically have 2-bolt mains, general performance hydraulic lifter camshafts, Quadra-Jet carbs on cast-iron intakes. Some early apps did use Holley carbs; some Corvettes had QJs on aluminum intakes. They are refered to as oval port because the cylinder heads have oval-shaped intake ports. Later 'smog' heads had smaller ports and are nearly worthless. Included are the 325hp/396, 350hp/402, 335hp/427, 360hp/454. Hundreds of thousands were made; intact and running they have value and are in demand largely from restorers, not widely used for racing.

-rectangular port
These are special high performance passenger car engines offered in all displacements: 396, 402, 427, 454. Never used in trucks. They had 4-bolt mains, high-performance solid lifter camshafts, Holley carbs on aluminum intakes. They are refered to as rectangular port because the cylinder heads have large rectangular intake ports. Some versions had aluminum heads. Included are the 375hp/396, 375hp/402, 425hp/427, 450hp/454. Fairly limited production; intact and running any one of them is quite valuable because so many were used up racing.

Some truck applications used a cylinder block that had 0.400" taller deck heights to accomodate truck-only 4 ring pistons. This means standard bb intakes and other parts do not interchange. There is a 366 cubic inch version that is absolutely worthless; other versions may have some value to racers. They have no value to restorers.

With the huge selection of aftermarket blocks/heads and Chevy crate engines, rebuilding and modifying a used up engine no longer makes much sense.
Figure out what you have; price accordingly.

1158  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Correct shifter on: June 12, 2006, 08:54:35 PM
Actually there is a way to have your cake and eat it too.

An original "MUNCIE" lever can be reworked to fit a Hurst shifter. Takes some patience as it is case-hardened. I'm not certain the Camaro lever works the best for this but there were a number of MUNCIE handles for various applications.
1159  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Correct shifter on: June 10, 2006, 08:00:54 PM
Inland Mfg was a supplier to the auto industry and manufactured the infamous "Muncie" shifter.

It had a number of design, engineering and manufacturing inadequacies, the most egregious being that it was not mounted on the transmission but to the trans crossmember. Under hard acceleration the engine/trans would twist slightly causing the shifter to bind. After a few hard shifts the knob mounting stud would snap off, perhaps sending your hand into the dash. With age the reverse slider, all of 1/8" thick at the gate, would break and rotate forward preventing shifting to reverse. Even when new neutral was hard to find. Cars built with a console had the shifter area covered with a black plastic plate that moved with the shifter. It would rattle and was immediately scratched and worn.

Just about every period magazine road test of a 4-speed Chevy complained about the shifter. If I bought a flawless original 67 or 68 Camaro that still had it I would remove it.

POS = piece of crap

1160  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: disc brake rotors on: June 09, 2006, 09:31:17 PM
1161  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Correct shifter on: June 09, 2006, 07:09:02 PM
No Hurst shifter '67 or '68. Should have the POS Inland shifter with the "MUNCIE" embossing on the lever.

Finding all the parts, rods, levers to put an original shifter together will be difficult.
1162  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: 1969 z/28 connecting rods on: May 29, 2006, 10:21:09 AM
Others with more knowledge should jump in.

First of all "pink" rods are not all that special. They are standard sb forgings shot-peened to eliminate stress risers and then magnafluxed to check for cracks. They were then coded with pink paint to differentiate them in production. In addition to the processes mentioned mid-68 and all 69 302 rods were machined for full floating pins. All 67 and early 68 302 engines had press-in pins. I believe 70-up LT1 engines used press-in pins.

What I do not know is if pistons designed for floating pins can be used with press-in pins.
If not you may have 67 style pistons. Standard bore 69 302 pistons were out of production for some time and perhaps the engine was simply rebuilt with 67s. Or, worst case, it is no longer a 302.

If this is a restoration-rebuild I wouldn't concern myself with having correct "pink" rods with full-floating pins. If the engine is to see hi-perf usage there are aftermarket rods way better than the stock stuff. We did a 69 302 rebuild from scratch almost 20 years ago and the rods we found back then were junk.

1163  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / 1969 Camaro SS L78 on: May 23, 2006, 06:42:47 PM
Over 20 years ago a friend stored a Garnet red L78 car at my house, eventually selling it there. I have discovered the original vinyl bag with owners manual and warranty folder with protect-o-plate.

The VIN was 124379N655xxx. It was sold in the early 80s from an ad in Old Cars and may be in Michigan.

If this sounds familiar, get in touch.
1164  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Walnut or Rosewood?? on: May 16, 2006, 09:55:35 PM
The change from Walnut to Rosewood for the '69 N34 wheel took place late in November 1968.
1165  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 69 Woodgrain horn shroud on: May 14, 2006, 08:46:55 PM
3972735 was the last GM part number for a black shroud with woodgrain insert. Other colors would have had different numbers.

1166  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 1969 spare wheel on: May 09, 2006, 12:05:29 PM
Would a 69 SS equipped with 14"x 7" wheels come with a 14"x6" spare wheel? What color would the spare wheel be?


All 5 wheel/tire assemblies matched unless the car was ordered with N65 space-saver spare, available only with 14" wheels.
1167  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Impossible to document? on: May 06, 2006, 02:12:21 PM
Many if not most surviving musclecars do not have original paperwork. Mine did not and it never bothered me.

Working the other angle I acquired a lot of '60s paperwork from a Chevrolet dealer, only a few of the cars seem to have survived.

The paint is interesting. This is the 2nd Z/28 I know of with - - paint due to
non-standard stripe color, the other being Le Mans blue with black stripes.

Even if you had the OE window sticker or invoice all it would state is "special paint".
1168  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Impossible to document? on: May 06, 2006, 12:08:00 PM
Van Nuys built 69s [L VIN] often have a Broadcast Sheet taped to the top of the fuel tank.

Check it out.
1169  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: What other rear end differentials will fit a 69 Camaro? on: May 06, 2006, 09:59:00 AM
There are others that will work [65-67 Chevelle, 68-74 Nova, 70 Camaro].

If you are intending to start with a 12 bolt axle they are expensive to acquire, expensive to restore/rebuild and will still have the built-in design limitations, namely drum brakes and C-clip axle retention. Cutting/welding on the axle tubes can warp and weaken them. Many 12 bolt axles were in cars that were abused; I've seen cracked center sections and bent housings.

By the time you are done buying, rebuilding and modifying you will have spent close to the cost of a new custom-built 9" or 12 bolt with discs, better axle retention and the ratio of your choice.

Were I building a hot rod that is what I would do.
1170  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Calling on you Camaro Experts. Nobody has been able to figure this out yet! on: May 05, 2006, 12:22:12 PM
That is a plant scheduling code used only at Van Nuys; has nothing to do with the configuration of the vehicle. The code is alpha-numeric so it is merely a coincidence that yours has a Z. The next day probably started back at A001.
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