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111509 Posts in 12837 Topics by 4913 Members
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1096  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: X Codes on: September 17, 2006, 07:45:32 PM
I have to preface a statement with some history about myself.

I bought my 1st 1969 Camaro Z/28 in 1975. Sold it 2 years later, bought another and on and on. From 1983-1997 I was involved with a business selling 1st gen Camaro parts. In those days the cars were plentiful and we parted dozens of them, set up/attended hundreds of swap meets, prowled junk yards from coast to coast, bought and sold an incredible amount of 1st gen Camaro parts during that time. We were small - D & R and Z & Z [to name a few] had many many times more cars & parts than we did. We sold it all: MO & DZ 302 engines, Muncie 4-speeds, '837' alternators, disc brake subframes, 12-bolt axles including 2 BEs, a complete JL8 setup, aluminum intakes including a cross-ram, factory Holley carbs, wheels, glass, sheetmetal including RS conversions and compete bodies supplied by our friends out West. In this time we helped many people restore and unfortunately unwittingly create cars.

This nonsense about claiming a car is an SS, Z/28 or whatever because it has 4-leaf springs, front discs or a 12-bolt has got to stop. We sold all that stuff many times over as did all other Camaro vendors at the time, 23 years ago. While certain characteristcs may have validity such a Z/28 without a Muncie speedo cable routing anything else can be and has been added. The famous '69 LH tailpipe plate takes about a minute to remove intact from a parts car and has been reproduced. And I grabbed many of the meaningless rear brakeline valves in junkyards. Body tags? Don't make me laugh. Those were being swapped 25 years ago. A few years ago I was visiting another vendor who showed me literally hundreds of them in an old toolbox.

The only way you can be certain of a cars' pedigree is genuine factory paperwork or irrefutable VIN-stamped drivetrain componentry.

1097  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: X Codes on: September 16, 2006, 10:47:35 AM
Perhaps you are new to the hobby or do not follow it that closely. You have stumbled into an area that definitely has two camps.

What you are asking is essentially "Can I build a fake Camaro SS?" Fakes are also called clones, re-creations and tribute cars. A rose by any other name...

Some seem to think that is fine as long as you display it as a clone. Problem is you will sell it someday and the next owners may choose not be quite so honest. There are several ZL1 clones proudly displayed at shows with no mention on their signage. A fake LS6 Chevelle was just "outed' resulting in a lawsuit as it had been completely mis-represented.

Tread very carefully here.
1098  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Anyone recommend someone to rebuild a power steering box? on: September 02, 2006, 01:46:04 PM
I believe Global West in CA does them. Check mags for an ad.

You are wise to not attempt it. Power boxes are not simple.
1099  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 68 Battery Question on: August 31, 2006, 08:09:29 PM
Nope, just another option.
1100  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Radiator Support Assembly on: August 31, 2006, 12:13:54 PM
One size fits all, slight evolutionary differences 67-69.
1101  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 69 Z28 Question on: August 25, 2006, 06:54:41 PM
Rear bumper guards [V32] were standard on Z/28 but optional on any 1969 Camaro. Many were removed from Z/28s by owners that did not care for the appearance.

1102  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Question 386 block on: August 25, 2006, 12:38:01 PM
It might seem like a silly question for some of you, I have a 69 327 with a 386 casting. If this is the same casting # as early dz & 350 engines,  why do 302 & 350 use different motor frame mounts than the 327 ? 

One of the first and largest auto recalls back in the '60s was caused by failure of the LH motor mount in 8 cylinder '65-'68 Chevrolet passenger cars. When the mount failed, under acceleration the engine would lift off the bracket, often causing the accelerator linkage to bind. The car would continue accelerating even after releasing pressure on the fuel pedal.This caused several serious accidents. The recall involved the band-aid fix of a cable/bracket assembly attached to the exhaust manifold and looped around the upper control arm shaft.

For '69 Chevy re-designed the mount with an integral hook to prevent physical separation of the parts if the rubber/metal bond failed. The "interlock" mount was narrower and thicker than the previous design necessitating re-designed frame brackets. For sb '69 Camaros Chevy only used the new mount/brackets with 302 and 350 engines, deemed most likely to need them. 307 and 327 engines continued to use the old design.

The problem with this is the early mount will fit the later interlock frame bracket. It is a very sloppy fit; the engine will be positioned too low and can easily move around causing clutch chatter and driveline vibration.
1103  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Exhaust System Configuration on 69Z'z on: August 19, 2006, 04:29:55 PM
The April 15 date is not correct. Dual exhaust Camaros had resonators starting with 1967 production. The "deep-tone" dual exhaust option for 67-68 simply eliminated them.

Possibly due to a short-term supply problem when chambered was dropped as standard equipment some 69s were built without them. The problem went away around February. Check the undercarriage photos of the #3 ZL1 on the rack at Berger Chev for the Hi-Perf Cars Magazine road test. Built 02D, has resonators. Assembly-line systems had the exhaust pipes welded to the resonators; the photos show no clamps.

05A is probably too early for chrome tailpipes. Not that I care, I put them on my car too.

1104  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 69 Z28 Question on: August 18, 2006, 07:01:00 PM
There is nothing in the VIN that will identify the car as a Z/28.

Depending on where/when it was built there could be corroborating information on the body tag, which is mounted on the firewall behind the power brake booster. Everybody knows that so there is plenty of skullduggery going on with the tags. There is certain equipment like power front disc brakes and dual exhaust that all Z/28s had but none of it is unique to the Z/28.

Assume for now it is not a Z/28. If has a relatively clean rust free body that doesn't need paint or major work, power front discs, Muncie 4-speed and 12 posi axle and drives ok it is probably worth 15k or a bit more anyway. The big block doesn't help but may have resale value. As a final thought more than a few COPOs were disguised as Z/28s.

Get the VIN and info off the body tag, post it here.

1105  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: COPO? on: August 18, 2006, 12:06:12 PM
John the car is an RS. All RS grilles were black except for black cars.
1106  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Tic toc tach w/gauges on: August 13, 2006, 03:53:20 PM
U16 tach only was added during the 1969 model year. COPO documentation indicates it appeared to be added at the request of someone like Yenko to eliminate having to add an aftermarket unit.
1107  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Did GM ever put M-20 in 69 Z-28?? on: August 13, 2006, 11:25:33 AM
I have a fair amount of '69 documentation; 20% of the Z/28s have M20.
1108  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: your thoughts on date code 302 on: August 11, 2006, 12:25:17 PM
I have a small db of DZ engine dates relative to VIN. February is not even close to correct for an 05A car.
1109  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: m 11 option th400 floor shift non console on: August 09, 2006, 08:25:14 PM
When the ebay M11/T400 car was up earlier this year it was discussed on Someone posted a photo of a '67? Mustang shift bezel and it appeared to be the same part.

The thread is still there with the photos. Search M11. The thread is "Super rare 68 Camaro SS".
1110  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: Dash Instrument Panel on: August 07, 2006, 08:52:18 PM
First of all there were 4 switches used: std, std w/gauges, rs, rs w/gauges. Make sure the new one is correct for your application.

My memory is a bit fuzzy on this but I do not believe the dash needs to be removed to replace the switch. There is a small spring loaded button on the switch. If you can reach under the dash, depress it and pull the switch knob all the way out-may take some jiggling. Once out, remove the round retainer nut and the switch can be pulled out and swapped.

If you already have the dash mostly loose, take the screws out of the heater control panel. Before you do that put some masking tape across the lens at the top-once loose the panel may spring back into the top of the dash which may scratch it. It also sounds like you do not have the nuts off the studs along the right side of the housing near the heater controls-you will have to get at those from behind. Also, the nuts under the radio knobs must be removed.

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