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111293 Posts in 12818 Topics by 4913 Members
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1066  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Original calipers, '69 Z on: January 09, 2007, 01:40:31 PM
Probably a partially collapsed LH front hose. OE calipers were Delco, single-piston.
1067  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 69 Vigilite / Front Parking Lens on: January 08, 2007, 07:50:50 PM
The directional lenses with the bright ring were standard on early-production rally-sports as indicated by early dealer ordering info. The January 1969 revision no longer lists them so they were discontinued at that time.

Lenses with the bright ring also had the outer circumference painted argent.
1068  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: BR Axle Code On A Z28 on: January 04, 2007, 05:05:36 PM
Around October 1968 the Muncie plant started adding a type code to the date stamp on 4-speeds: A=wide [M20] B=close [M21] C=HD [M22].

The pop does not usually have this code for some reason. The trans should have it however; would be P9B17A for a wide.

There were also grooves cut perpendicular to the input shaft splines for the same reason: 2=wide, 1=close. No grooves was M22. This is not true of service replacement input shafts.
1069  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: BR Axle Code On A Z28 on: January 04, 2007, 01:51:42 PM
Every 1969 Camaro was built to a specific dealer order. The order could be for dealer stock or for a customer; the process was the same. Hence there really is no 'special' order.

Unless otherwise specified a Z/28 was built with a 3.73:1 non-positraction rear axle. If positraction was specified the car would be built with a 3.73:1 positration rear axle. However the Power Team Chart shows that a Z/28 could be ordered with 3.07, 3.31, 3.55 or 4.10 axle ratios. 410 or higher required posi. There was at least one 69 ordered with 488s. 

Your car was ordered with that axle, probably for a specific customer that never took delivery. I hope it has a wide-ratio trans.
1070  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Front Spoiler on: December 23, 2006, 02:47:13 PM
Excellent question!

Car Life wondered also and tested 3 cars with and without spoilers in the June 1969 issue; a Z/28, GTO Judge, Javelin. The Javelin spoiler did nothing, the GTO rear spoiler increased front lift.

Only the Z/28 spoilers actually worked, the best configuration being front only.
1071  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Window Sticker Font on: December 12, 2006, 01:38:38 PM
Seems like William had a real problem with me not putting correct ECL codes on a replica window sticker. Since these are not readily available, I have no choice. Hence, it was his recommendation to put "repro" on the Sticker so no one would mistake it for real. I may have read into a bit too far, but the "you must be joking" comment suggests I would be doing something terrible by not making it perfectly correct. I can't imagine that anyone would confuse a freshly printed sheet of paper with a 40 year old window sticker.

In recent months several dealers have been "taken" by re-created paperwork. Both were build sheets, one so bad it was amusing ['70 Chevelle form for a '69 Camaro] the other an excellent repro build sheet for a '70 LS-6 that only a very knowledgeable Chevelle guy could spot. A well-known auction house has had to buy back several cars that turned out to be fakes.

If dealers are getting screwed by this stuff where does that leave the average person?

You may be acting in good faith but sell that car with the repro w/s and it could come back to haunt you. Subsequent owners may not know it was a repro. If a large sum of money was involved count on memories to suddenly get fuzzy.

My advice: Forget the repro w/s, broadcast copies, build sheets, body tags, warranty folders.

If you would like an inkling of what is going on behind the scenes go to:

1072  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: DZ Block ? on: December 11, 2006, 07:34:18 PM
There was no block casting specific to the 302 engine.

The castings used by Chevrolet to build them were also used for 300 & 350 hp 350 engines. The block in question did come from a Camaro but with the code gone there is no way to tell if it was a 302. Since it has been messed with the crank may not be original. 
1073  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Window Sticker Font on: December 08, 2006, 11:34:15 AM
So for purposes of creating a replica window sticker, a 5 in front of the RPO code, along with any ECL from a sample found on a real window sticker should do the trick.

You must be joking.

I have been doing '69 ECL research for years and probably add a few every month.

While there are some specific to certain performance options there are many permutations of others. For example Z22 Rally-Sport Equipment currently has 20. One would think Pace Cars would use the same one; no such luck-there are at least 4. A specific performance option may have different ECLs with different engines.

I would go on but when I yap about ECLs Kurt S' BP goes way up.

Nothing wrong with doing a window sticker "recreation" but be aware that for 1969 Camaro used 2 forms [early-late]; both are different than other Chevrolet lines. Prices changed [Z/28: $458.15/$473.95/$506.60/$522.40], options were added/deleted during the year. Some options were not available with unrelated others. You will never get ECLs correct.

And based on what is brewing in the hobby you better note it as a "repro".

1074  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: Spoiler AND Rear Antenna on: December 08, 2006, 11:09:33 AM
I have other photos of that car and know the story behind it.

It is the Styling mock-up car shown at the kick-off dinner. It also had black rockers.
1075  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Help decoding my 69 vin on: December 05, 2006, 09:20:41 PM
ps why did you say that A39 and A85 do not exist?

The codes may have been used elsewhere in GM, just not on Camaro and not for those options.

For the record Custom Deluxe Belts [req on Z11] were YA1, Front Shoulder Belts were YA3.
1076  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Help decoding my 69 vin on: December 05, 2006, 01:17:11 PM
I doubt there was intent to deceive. There are a few guys that offer window sticker re-creations and this is simply one of them.

With the documentation legal mess brewing in the Yenko/COPO world I would put that in a drawer and never display it with the car. If you sell the car throw it out.

I looked at your site, the restoration/car looks outstanding. The protect-o-plate is all the car needs.
1077  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Help decoding my 69 vin on: December 04, 2006, 08:43:34 PM
And a bad one at that.

A39 & A85 did not exist. Many of the ECLs are incorrect; "5ZJ7AG" indicates 14 x 6 rally wheels.

The form is incorrect and the body number is missing.
1078  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: sandblasting? on: December 04, 2006, 08:31:06 PM
Having done my share of sandblasting I strongly recommend that you have a professional shop do the work. Sandblasting of this magnitude [entire floorpan] requires a large compressor and sanblasting equipment, all of which can be rented. The car will need to be suspended; don't even consider lying under it. It will take a lot of sand and is incredibly noisy & messy. You will also need personal protective equipment. Inhaling sand is hazardous and it can easily end up in your nose, ears and eyes.

Sandblasting can warp and work-harden metal so you do not want to do any exterior sheet metal. If you get careless it will instantly ruin glass. There will be sand in the car forever.

Were I to do a car again I would first remove all panels due to be replaced and would seriously consider having the remainder of the paint/rust chemically stripped. There are rust-neutralizing solutions now available that are far more thorough than sandblasting. Hot Rod did a feature on this topic in the June 2006 issue.
1079  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Camaro disc brake rearend on: December 03, 2006, 07:03:08 PM
It could be a conversion using late '70s Cadillac Seville rear discs. They were built off a Nova platform and I understand the discs bolt-on.
1080  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Help decoding my 69 vin on: December 02, 2006, 12:25:41 PM
The U73 Manual Rear Antenna option was not available with spoilers. The dealer should have noted the error and requested new documents. Errors like this aren't all that unusual. When a Camaro window label has the VIN entirely printed rather than stamped that is usually the reason.

AM front masts were telescopic, FM was fixed-height.


2467=8 cylinder convertible
9=1969 model year
N=Norwood, Ohio final assembly plant
637627=137,627 unit built at Norwood

NOR 319187=unit # assigned at time of dealer order
TR 720=Orange Houndstooth interior
50=Dover white lower body color
A=white convertible top
05A=body assembly started 1st week May 1969
Z11=Indianapolis 500 Pace Car accents

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