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111297 Posts in 12818 Topics by 4913 Members
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1  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: ZL1 timing cover and oil pan bolts on: March 25, 2015, 04:31:07 PM
All Tonawanda BB manifolds were painted. Mostly fried by the time the car was delivered.
2  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: ZL1 timing cover and oil pan bolts on: March 25, 2015, 12:58:15 PM
The assembled engines were not painted as normal cast iron engines but certain steel components were painted. The ZL1 engine assembly manual shows that "black engine enam" was to be used to paint the "oil pan, air inj brkt, distr clamp, frt cover, clutch fork (exposed part), torsional damper, lifting hook, exh manif, clutch hsg cover".

Normal manufacturing processing would dictate these parts were painted prior to assembly. Automotive fasteners are coated and do not need to be painted.

http://www.camaros.org/copo.shtml#engine
3  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: 6485891 Air Cleaner Applications on: March 25, 2015, 12:22:26 PM
6485891 is the generic service replacement air cleaner for '69 Camaro & '70-'71 Chevelle with ducted hood. For some time it was serviced with a chrome lid that was not used in production. Also requires a rubber seal and the metal flange it attaches to. Some applications used an extension to elevate the assembly to meet the hood.

For Camaro it is only correct for 302 and BB applications. It is not identical to the 6485235 unit used in production; that one has a flat bottom and a 90 vent tube. At some point the production unit was revised with a raised bead in the base and a different vent tube; probably September '69.
4  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Is it a 1969 Z/28? on: March 24, 2015, 05:17:09 PM
You did ask for opinions so here's mine: make a hot rod out of it.

Just putting 5 dated AD wheels on it [IF you can find them] with repro E70s will approach $4000. Any 'date correct' engine you find will have some other VIN on it. I think you will have more fun and enjoyment doing a PT or Day 2 build and in the long run it may be more valuable. I've seen a number of them do very well at auction.

What we used to tell people at the business 25 years ago remains true. If you have your heart set on a numbers-matching Z/28 that's what you should buy. You really can't piece one together.
5  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 1969 SS 396 / 375 assistance on: March 24, 2015, 04:59:53 PM
Bill, I was wondering if you would notice. Smiley 

Actually, most 4.10's went into Z28's. L78's got more of a range of axles - 3.55 to 4.10.
I'll be more specific: Most of the BV axles were much closer, but I see another Feb LOS car with that same date.

Of course I noticed, nothing else to do just now!

As Kurt noted the CRG has found DT date anomalies aren't as unusual as once thought. I have the POP for a '69 L78 Camaro a bud had in the '80s. Final-assembled on or about June 10. Engine T0429JH, axle BV0506, trans P9C14. Engine was in stock about 35 calendar days, axle about 30 days, trans about 80 days. No FIFO in the plants back then.

Best DT anomaly I know of is a friends 06E '67 Z/28. Engine V0706MO, axle PU0320, trans P7H23. Has a Dec '66 42 amp alternator. All original!
 

6  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Is it a 1969 Z/28? on: March 23, 2015, 06:45:03 PM
Interesting question with two answers. Based on about 6% of production so take it with a grain of salt.

Van Nuys produced about 3,900 '69 Z/28s. Very few September '68 but October saw a big increase to about 560. January, February and April were peak months.

Norwood produced about 16,400 '69 Z/28s. Production was low through the end of calendar year 1968 with only about 3,200 Z/28s produced. Production picked up January '69; February and May were peak production months. Production dropped off after June.

Chevrolet Zone offices notified dealers November 1968 that no more Z/28 orders would be taken until engine production was able to catch up. They must have anticipated much lower sales and needed to bring on more capacity. Remember Chevrolet only built cars to dealer orders. Most Z/28s were ordered for dealer stock.
7  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: ZL-1 Wheels on: March 23, 2015, 01:41:44 PM
Did any ZL-1's come with Rally wheels?  If so, they would be be YJ 14x7 or 15" dated to the car, right. So jrm3, have you checked the dates and codes on the rallly's?

None of the 50 ZL-1s Gibb Chev ordered had rally wheels. Of the remaining 19 2 are known to have been built with COPO 9737 and had 15 x 7 rally wheels. 6 are known to have been built with 14 x 7 rally wheels. 9 others had XT wheels, 2 have unknown build configuration.
8  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: ZL-1 Wheels on: March 23, 2015, 11:04:14 AM
For now buy any solid used XT you can find; they all look the same. You may be able to swap your way into a dated set over time. What is the body tag date?

Be aware Pontiac used a 14 x 7 XT wheel in '69 but the stamping is smaller I believe.

9  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: just joined have a 68 coupe and a 69 rs convt on: March 22, 2015, 03:35:54 PM
Hey Welcome to the CRG!

Sounds like you have 2 nice cars. We encourage to post pictures of each car you have, and motor shots if possible.

Regarding how many RS convertibles were made. I think we can narrow down how many convertibles, and how many 69 Camaro RS cars there was in general. I am not sure GM kept that good of records to say specifically how many convertibles had the RS option.

So there were 243,085 1969 Camaro produced
37,773 1969 Camaros had the RS option, (which is about 15%)
17,573 1969 Camaro convertibles produced

So 15% of 17,573 Convertibles works out to about 2,730 1969 Camaro convertibles with the RS option.


What about the 3,675 Indy Pace Car replicas?
10  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Is it a 1969 Z/28? on: March 21, 2015, 04:00:27 PM
You're welcome.

Get Jerry MacNeish's '69 Camaro book; still has a few in stock last I heard. Still the best book on the market and I doubt he will reprint it.
11  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Is it a 1969 Z/28? on: March 21, 2015, 10:18:51 AM
Standard Z/28 equipment included fast-ratio manual steering. Chevrolet accomplished that by revising the steering linkage. The fast-ratio pitman arm is 5.75" center to center, standard is 5.25". The steering arms for fast-ratio are shorter. Manual and power pitman arms do not interchange. If the car has manual fast-ratio steering and the box is OE that's a great indicator.

But again, not all that tough to swap steering gears. Also N44 steering was an option but very rare.
12  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Is it a 1969 Z/28? on: March 21, 2015, 09:42:03 AM
The problem I have with all of the Z/28 'tells' is the information has been out there for decades. All anyone needs is an early production 4-speed Camaro SS350 [or LM1] and you're 90% of the way there-disc brakes, dual exhaust, Muncie trans. Cut out the QJ return line and you're nearly there. A wide-ratio 4-speed and 3.55 axle isn't unusual in a Z/28. Rear springs are easily changed; plenty of real Z/28s no longer have the originals. If the car has manual steering that can be a reliable indicator; SS power steering used the same box & pitman arm as a Z/28.

Even if it is a Z/28 acquiring every date-code correct part will take years and a lot of cash. Very few Z/28s produced early in the model year.

13  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Is it a 1969 Z/28? on: March 20, 2015, 09:49:17 PM
Some of the characteristics noted-speedo cable routing, disc brakes, dual exhausts-are also found on Camaro SS or were optional.

Need to know about the trans and rear axle.
14  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: ZL-1 Wheels on: March 20, 2015, 06:05:17 PM
Good luck with that. You will need 5 wheels dated to the car; very rare to find a complete set. A friend has a Gibb ZL1 with correct XTs but incorrectly dated for an 02D build. A complete dated set became available a few months ago and sold immediately for $3995. Didn't want them that bad.

There is one XT wheel 5-8-69 for sale on the Yenko site for $325. Ya snooze ya lose.
15  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Is it a 1969 Z/28? on: March 20, 2015, 03:39:00 PM
Is the OE trans with it? What is the rear axle stamping?
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