Messages

1771

General Discussion / Re: Responsible for the design of the 69 Camaro?

« on: October 20, 2015, 05:04:45 PM »

The book is not exclusively 1st Gens; 2nd gen is covered as well. It was published in 1978 so some of the people and history behind the car from concept through production were available. Lamms' book is the reason the VINs for the 1st 25 production '67 Z/28s are known. Someone at Chevy [probably Vince Piggins] still had the dealer list and gave it to him when he was researching the book.

If you're looking for the story behind the Camaro it remains the best resource. If I were him I'd re-release it.

1772

General Discussion / Re: Responsible for the design of the 69 Camaro?

« on: October 19, 2015, 08:50:10 PM »

Larry Shinoda was a stylist at Chevy who also had involvement with the '63 Corvette I believe. Shinoda was trusted ally of Bunkie Knudsen, a GM executive who had become restless. Henry Ford II brought Bunkie in as Ford VP in '68; Shinoda came along.

Didn't work out for either of them.

1773

General Discussion / Re: Responsible for the design of the 69 Camaro?

« on: October 19, 2015, 02:57:38 PM »

Chevy/GM was design by committee in those days. I have never heard of one name associated with the design.

Best resource with some interesting photos of design proposals that didn't make it is "The Great Camaro" a book by Michael Lamm. Should be able to find a copy on line someplace.

1774

Originality / Re: ZL2 hood on LM-1 engine pack

« on: October 18, 2015, 04:39:41 PM »

Not possible. An LM1 would have been built with the standard hood. It was not a high-performance engine.

The ZL2 Special Ducted Hood was released as an option on the December 1968 revision to the dealer ordering information. It was an option only on Camaro SS and Z/28. It was included with COPOs 9560 & 9561. The earliest known ZL2 cars were final-assembled late December 1968 at both plants.

1775

Originality / Re: firewall chalk - how did this look originally

« on: October 17, 2015, 12:11:05 AM »

During body fab Fisher Body workers wrote certain codes/notes on the firewall with grease pencil prior to any paint being applied. It stained the metal and is visible if the car is media blasted. Firewall blackout was applied after the car was painted. Paint doesn't adhere well to grease pencil and over time the writing becomes visible. Would have been no reason to write "RED" or anything else across the firewall of a body that was already built and painted.   

It is not unusual to see a build sequence number written inside the lower grille panel. Possibly done to ease matching the body with the front sheet metal assembly. I have a vintage road test photo of a Nickey/Bill Thomas 427 '68 Camaro and there is definitely something on the firewall behind the engine; appears to be 48 E. Could have been SOP to write it there also and later wipe it off.

Also, '69 COPO Camaros often have '427' written inside the front fender extensions.

1776

General Discussion / Re: 1969 rear antenna and spoiler - here's the rub...

« on: October 16, 2015, 02:58:17 PM »

All RF hinge pillars were pre-punched for an antenna lead. The hole was plugged on cars built without a radio or with a rear antenna.

1777

General Discussion / Re: 1967-1968 396 production numbers

« on: October 15, 2015, 11:12:41 PM »

Does anyone know how many 69 Camaro SS/RS convertibles with the L78 engine were produced?

No. Statistical interpolations are worthless.

1778

General Discussion / Re: Sill Molding Installation

« on: October 14, 2015, 03:32:48 PM »

Install the bracket on the car. Position the molding over the bracket and push down gently until the top inner edge slides into the top of the bracket front to back. When the top of the molding is completely in place push down to snap the bottom in place. Align the molding and drill the holes at the ends.

A tip is to lightly round the corners at the top ends of the bracket. The repro molding is a softer alloy than OE and the bracket may slightly dent it during installation.

1779

Originality / Re: LM-1 original wheels

« on: October 10, 2015, 08:21:21 PM »

There is no way to know which wheel/cover/tire was originally on your car. Standard equipment would have been 14 x 6 wheels painted body color with a standard hub cap. If the car was ordered with any of the 4 optional wheel covers the wheels would have been painted black. It may have been ordered with rally wheels; brakes were not a factor.

The standard hub cap has nothing to do with either COPO. It was just that; the standard wheel treatment for any Camaro. Many COPOs were ordered with either 14 x 7 or 15 x 7 rally wheels.

1780

Originality / Re: U17 package

« on: October 10, 2015, 06:11:20 PM »

The clock as a distinct option was U35. However the Assembly Instruction Manual only shows the dash cluster clock. My guess, if the car was built with U16 and you wanted a clock it had to come from the accessory catalog. #993581 is listed there as floor mounted for Camaro.

I have seen enough original LM1s to question your "most" statement. LM1 production for the 4 months of availability was 10,406; N10 production was 5,545 for the entire production run. I have dealership docs for 2 LM1s; neither has any of those options meaning they were manual drum brake cars with single exhaust. Both had 2.56:1 positraction axles. Most N10 cars were the standard 8 cylinder or the L65 350/2v.   

LM1 was unusual in that it did not have a standard transmission; an optional trans had to be ordered. Cheapest was the MC1 HD 3-speed which included a floor shift for $79. It was the standard trans for Camaro SS and was dropped as an option with the LM1 as of January 1969.

1781

Originality / Re: U17 package

« on: October 10, 2015, 03:06:56 PM »

The U16 Tachometer or U17 Special Instrumentation were not included with Z/28 equipment; as of January '69 either was a required option at extra cost. There must have been supply problems however as many cars were built through May without either.

Intro cost for Z/28 equipment was $458.15. However it required ordering at extra cost J52 Power Front Disc Brakes [$64.25] and a 4-speed transmission [$195.40]. Positraction [$42.15] was not included with the standard 3.73:1 axle; required with the optional 4.10:1 ratio. As of February '69 Z/28 cost increased to $473.95; when spoilers were included March '69 $506.60. As of late May cost increased to $522.40 when chrome tailpipes were added.

1969 Camaro production spanned 16 months. There were many changes to pricing and optional equipment over the run.

1782

Originality / Re: U17 package

« on: October 09, 2015, 10:40:59 PM »

Correct. There was no 'clock delete' for U17.

1783

Originality / Re: U17 package

« on: October 08, 2015, 10:05:11 PM »

U17 included a clock. Common for U17 to be added without it or the dash housing to be replaced without it. Some very early '69 press photos show a U17 car with no clock, probably a Pilot build.

307, 327 & 350 engines w/U17 would have had a 5000 redline 7000 rpm tach. 5500/7000 was used on the 325 & 350 hp 396.

1784

Decoding/Numbers / Re: 09c copo dates

« on: October 08, 2015, 06:29:02 PM »

At best a partial listing. There may have been 900-950 L72 cars.

1785

Decoding/Numbers / Re: 09c copo dates

« on: October 08, 2015, 01:54:41 PM »

Bulaw sent me pics of the TT and under the hood... it's a real one... that makes a GOOD number of previously unknown COPO's found this year.

There will be another one in barn finds at MCACN.