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Messages - william

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General Discussion / Re: Center Dash Clock
« on: October 19, 2018, 03:44:42 AM »
You're correct-U17 Special Instrumentation included a clock in the center of the instrument cluster.

Common to add gauges to a car not built with them and omit the clock. Also, common to have to replace the plastic housing. Repro housings have to be trimmed to mount the clock and some don't bother. 

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Caveat Emptor...another tag mismatch
« on: October 18, 2018, 09:14:30 PM »
The trim tag was issued by Fisher Body when Chevrolet scheduled the unit for production. Even though the Gibb ZL1s were ordered on the same day, they couldn't be immediately scheduled due to material availability. In the end, 2 had 12E tags, 36 had 02D tags, 4 had 03B tags, 8 had 03D tags. The first two built were 222002 and 222003, also the only ones with sequential VINs. 222001 was the 14th built. All of the 02D tags were built March 4-12. VINs were assigned in sequence as bodies were received from Fisher. Cars were not built in VIN order.

None of the Gibb cars was the first ZL1 ordered. #3 was the first ordered, bearing body number 211785. Gibb had friends in high places.

Dealer orders were not allowed to linger. By the end of July, 200,281 69s had been built but over 277,000 orders had been logged. Orders were typically cancelled because of capacity/allocation but errors and equipment changes were also factors.

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Caveat Emptor...another tag mismatch
« on: October 18, 2018, 05:43:08 PM »
Has CRG ever seen a documented original car with a 6 month delay between planned and actual produc tion?   What is the largest delay we've seen/documented??

There is no way to know when a car was initially scheduled to ship without having the scheduled price sheet. I have seen a few; looks much like a window sticker. One indication is the order confirmation number aka 'body number'. For '69 both plants were on the same system, run out of Central Office. Numbering started August '68 at 100001 and had nothing to do with scheduling. But it is an indicator of how long the order was in the system. The 50 Fred Gibb Chev ZL1s were ordered early December 1968 and for the most part had body numbers 222001-up. The first two cars were expedited through the system and final-assembled Dec 30, 1968. Other Camaros built that day have body numbers in the 213xxx-218xx range. But the last of Gibbs' ZL1s were built in March; other cars at that time were in the range 251xxx-291xxx. Not an exact science.

As for the ebay car, the trim tag may not have been off. The car may have been junked and no longer had a title or VIN tag. Rather than jumping through the hoops for a recon title with state assigned VIN [value hit], it is easier to buy one of the thoroughly rusted mutts off ebay that is offered with title and tags intact.

It's a jungle out there.

Decoding/Numbers / Caveat Emptor...another tag mismatch
« on: October 18, 2018, 01:01:51 PM »


Car was final-assembled on or about April 22, 1969. Has an 10A body tag, 1st week October 1969. One or both tags are not original to the car.

From the ad: Because life is too short to drive a boring car!

True. If the VIN tag has been swapped, owning this car will get exciting.

Decoding/Numbers / Re: It's back!
« on: October 16, 2018, 09:30:24 PM »
The RS grille was black on all applications except Camaros painted black. Black cars received silver [aka argent] RS grilles.

Restoration / Re: restoration of copo
« on: October 15, 2018, 11:26:39 PM »
Sort of. Was on a lawn in Kuna, Idaho with a FOR SALE sign circa 1987. Was a bracket car at Firebird Raceway where it raced against another Cortez Silver ZL1, #13.

Known history back to the day it rolled off the assembly line, March 4, 1969.

Restoration / Re: restoration of copo
« on: October 15, 2018, 10:38:12 PM »
This was painted in lacquer 30 years ago by a friend in a 2-car garage. He also did the body work. All GM back then; no repro.

General Discussion / Re: 69 cowl tag
« on: October 15, 2018, 05:52:20 PM »
I wonder if it was a prank. NBR and 0A start appearing on tags as of Friday September 13, 1968. Earlier 09A tags are normal. Corrected for 09B.

Restoration / Re: restoration of copo
« on: October 15, 2018, 04:02:30 PM »

One of the nicest COPO restorations I have seen. Done by a hobbyist working out of his garage.

Restoration / Re: restoration of copo
« on: October 15, 2018, 12:11:21 PM »
Why? What is different?

General Discussion / Re: 69 cowl tag
« on: October 14, 2018, 12:07:28 PM »
Thought all the known NBR tags were from the 09A timeframe, so was the scheduled build week also a typo?

'NBR' tags are in the 09A time frame but were mis-stamped.

Fisher Body issued the tag when the production order was released to build the body for a specific dealer order. Fisher skipped some weeks; the tag date has a casual relationship to when the car was final-assembled by Chevrolet. For example, some 02D bodies were final-assembled mid-March '69. The Chevy schedule bank shuffled bodies after VIN assignment; cars were not build in body tag date or VIN order. Not unusual to see a D body tag with a lower VIN than a C date.

General Discussion / Re: 69 cowl tag
« on: October 14, 2018, 01:06:07 AM »
Is the body tag date 0A?

That's actually backwards. It was King-Braeger Chev until the early '60s when Jim King received a franchise. Braeger went on their own at that time. Jim King closed around 1980.

General Discussion / Re: Chrome shifter ball
« on: October 09, 2018, 11:05:39 PM »
I'm pretty certain that in 69, there was no jamb nut used on the chrome shifter ball.   I believe William told me that back when we were trying to decipher my car and I thought the jamb nut was missing.

True, no lock nut on '69 factory Hurst shifters.

Back in the day, saw many 67-68 Muncie shifters with the stud broken off.

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