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346  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Vintage Certification @ Camaro/GM Nationals on: January 16, 2010, 10:29:42 AM
Vintage Certification is a judging program who's sole purpose is to recognize, provide status and promote un-restored (survivor) Camaro & Chevelle. We believe it is the only program that focuses on documenting and benchmarking these cars. Each Certification team member possesses over 30 years experience in the hobby. Typically we spend 3hrs examining in detail every segment of your car. The team consist of 3-4 judges. Certifications are held annually at the Camaro Nationals @ Carlisle sponsored by American Camaro Association and held in conjunction with the All GM Nationals. (We have added a new venue MCACN ). We understand not every original car is 100% untouched, and we offer four levels of certification, based on the originality of the Vehicle. This is our eleventh year at the Camaro Nationals. This is list of a few cars we have certified at previous shows: 1970 Dick Harrell 454 Conversion (Steve Sandlin), 19K mile 69 Yenko(Don Stowers), 14K mile 69 RS/SS L78(Joe Demesey), 1100mile 70.5 RS/Z28(Charley Lillard),12Kmile RS/SS L48(Rick George), 22k mile 70.5 Z28 (Jack Seymore), 67 Z28 (Chris Piscitello), 69 COPO (Grady Burch), 40Kmiles 67 RS/SS (Jeff Helms). The car doesn't necessarily need to rare, just original.


   Encourages the preservation, status, recognition and appreciation of the unrestored Camaro/Chevelle.

   Offer the hobbyist the opportunity to have their Vehicle certified objectively, fairly and provides provenance and pedigree.

   Promotes and adheres to the philosophy that the original car showing wear is preferable to one that is improperly restored

   Vintage Certification represents a repository of factory correct standards by which the hobby and serious restorers can all benefit

   Vintage Certification identifies a Vehicle as having completed a thorough exhausting inspection process, which references factory standards, and at a level as established by Vintage Certification.Group   

 If your Camaro was built prior to 1975 and think your car qualifies, or want to know more about our program email me at or (631) 514-9765. It is truly amazing the jewels of information that can be learned from these benchmark cars. If you are into Camaros this is the show, June 25,26 & 27.

Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification

347  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: HOW LONG HAVE YOU HAD YOUR CAR AND WHAT DID YOU PAY FOR IT ? on: December 19, 2009, 05:53:35 PM
I purchased my first 69 Z in 1976. It was a rs as well and was hugger orange, black vinyl and stripes. I sold in in 1983 when I got married to purchase our first home. I lived in a suburb of philly and purchased the car in Cherry Hill, NJ. I advertised the car in Super Chevy and sold it to a gentlemen in TX. He sold it in 1986 and I have been in pursuit of the car since that time. So for 20 plus years I would call the owner 2-3 times a year hoping he would part with the car. Basically the conversations were always the same; he would ask "how much is it worth now" and nothing more. This past Oct 14th I received a call from the owner Mark S. he stated he wanted to sell. I had to take care of some family issues, but two weeks later I was on a plane to TX. The car needs some work as it hasn't been run for over 15 years, but still retains its original drivetrain and is loaded with options. Well a month worth of negotiation and she is on her way home. Although I haven't owned the car continuously I have owned and pursued the car for 30 years.

348  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: black on tailpan on ss cars on: July 29, 2009, 01:05:31 PM
I don't think we can put the COPO and Yenko cars in the same category when considering tailpan paint.  I have seen original 69 COPO cars, I remember a silver one in particular, that had regular body color paint on the tailpan.

Does anyone have an SS car that they know the history of the car from Day 1 that it left the dealership?  I would put a lot of weight behind what they think.

I am not sure if anyone would want to do this, and I am not asking anyone to do it, but if you tailpan is glossy, it would be interesting to see what it looks like without any wax on it.

The very early yenko's were X66 coded and painted just like any other big block. Nothing special about the paint process on them vs any other camaro.
349  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: black on tailpan on ss cars on: July 28, 2009, 06:22:24 PM
My Final post on this subject....

I WAS THERE when these cars rolled into the dealerships and my friends bought them(I couldn't afford one). I saw them and they were not gloss.

Buddy, we can disagree but do it respectfully. There is no room for your last comment. Lets take a step back and calm down. This forum is means to share ideas, information and theories. If each of us weren't allowed to voice his opinion (without being ridiculed) then we would never learn about these cars through others experiences. There is a wealth of information knowledge on this site let's keep it flowing by respecting each other.

<edited quote>
350  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: black on tailpan on ss cars on: July 28, 2009, 10:39:36 AM
"Listen to the experts on this because you nor I are one of them."   And the experts are ?  And you know I am not a expert because ? I have been collecting and working on Camaro's for probably 35 years and have owned probably a couple hundred. I feel pretty confident that the examples I posted were not shiny because of being waxed over the years. I make no claims to be the expert but I know what I have seen over the years and I try to pay attention to orig cars.  The Yenko was a 8000 mile car and the green L78 is a maybe 12000 mile car ?

In my opinion the tail panels and rockers were painted semi gloss. My focus has always been on the survivor cars and have had access to dozens of survivor cars and none have had a full gloss tail panels. I own survivor cars and the black tail panels and rockers were not painted with the same paint used when they painted the complete exterior black. I would estimate it is 70-80 percent gloss. Sorry Charley, but I can't let you get away without a counter point.
351  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Research Topics & Reports / Re: Gas tank date codes on: July 24, 2009, 06:24:16 AM
10A of 69     Tank date  9  70
352  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Research Topics & Reports / Re: Gas tank date codes on: July 23, 2009, 11:33:40 AM
9B of 68     Tank date  1  69
353  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: 69 Speedometer on: July 09, 2009, 07:46:40 AM
COPO# 9737 (sports car conversion) in 1968 and 1969 included a 140 spedometer and a few other goodies. In 1968 Yenko ordered cars under this # and then converted most from 396's to 427's.  In 1969 he ordered what is referred to double copo's 9737 and 9561 which included the L72 427. William published a nice report on the copo process which is under the reports section of this site. Other dealers ordered double copo's as well in 69.
354  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Research Topics & Reports / Re: 69 owners with "Pebble-grained" steering wheels (not shrouds) please check in on: June 30, 2009, 01:24:37 PM
We (Vintage) certified three 69's with standard wheels at the GM Nationals this past weekend. All three has pebble-grained wheels, none were Z23 optioned:

Built 9D of 69
X66, 711

Built 4C
X77, 711

Built 10A of 69
 X33, 721

355  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 302 small block fire order on: January 03, 2009, 07:10:36 PM
Yes the firing order is the same as all small blocks 18436572
356  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: PTB on Los Angeles Camaros on: December 18, 2008, 08:36:07 AM
So when were the P T and B marks put on?  and why?  they must have been applied at different times by different people?  after QA inspection of those areas?  or ?    and why would the cars be marked on both sides of the firewall?   

There were two inspectors (one on each side car) applying the stamps as it finished that operation in the assembly process. There are paint daubs through out the car that represent inspection and or confirmation that a component is torqued or installation complete.  
357  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: Correct Drive Shaft for a COPO on: December 05, 2008, 11:10:57 PM
I have never seen shafts that were not phased .If they are out of phase they would vibrate like hell .Is it possible the shaft you looked at was twisted ?

Virtually all the hipo cars copo, ss and z28 driveshafts I have inspected are offset, as William stated, with no vibration detected. It was thought it may have been to prevent vibration harmonic, but no difinitive answer as to why. No the shafts are not twisted due to torque....
358  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 1969 TI Ignition wiring diagram on: November 26, 2008, 03:55:36 PM
I had a JL8 Z28 that the orig owner installed GM TI setup and the tach worked just fine. I am not sure what if any modifications were needed for it to operate, but I did not see any additional wiring or modifications.
359  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Gratitude on: November 04, 2008, 02:44:42 PM
A great guy who is very deserving of induction into National Corvette Museum Hall of Fame, and is always willing to answer questions and help fellow hobbyist...

Thanks John
360  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Originality / Re: A.I.R. on 350/300 w/ auto trans on: October 04, 2008, 08:48:58 PM
Hi Billy, I will be at Hershey and will be judging, just not sure what assigned class. This is a general event, you will see car 1800 to 1983. I enjoy judging at the Camaro Nationals and AACA Hershey, they are both great events. I will be there Fri & Sat, give me a call on my cell 631-514-9765, I would be happy to look your car over.
Steve Shauger
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