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271  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Decoding/Numbers / Re: Impossible to document? on: May 07, 2006, 08:35:43 PM
The suggestion to try GM Canada is an excellent one. The first title in Washington state was 12/12/69, the car was one year old by then, it may started life up north. I know I've seen the Canadian info on the site before but does someone have it handy?
                  Thanks Pat

Don't quote me - but I seem to recall from a conversation from someone - either G M Vintage Services or elsewhere - that almost all Canadian sold/documented cars were ones made and shipped from the Norwood facility... - Randy 
272  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Silver Camaro Concept Car - Atlanta 2006 Auto Show on: May 07, 2006, 06:28:52 PM
I still don't like the car, though it may be grow on me.    I think it needs to be much more retro as in 1rst. gen. styling.    But then they did not ask for my opinion.    That said, they may miss a huge part of potential market (baby boomers) by not making significant changes.   Anyone agree, or am I in a dream world???

Yep I agree fully - and if they don't retro the pre-production units more and soon enough to attract interest and satisfy the 'Boomers' they will lose so much hype by the time it is actually introduced, that the car will get shelved for lack of sales soon after it gets into production, if it does get that far...
Don't forget its the 50's and up age bracket that wants the retro stuff mostly, and they are the ones that have the $$$'s to be able to play with and now afford one that is decently equipped not the 20's group (I'm guessing pricing in the mid thirtie$$$ - in a form that will do the Camaro name some performance justice - not a V6-thing with a 3 speed auto for $27,000 with tires). Anyone who says otherwise has forgotten how the Mustang sales stomped the last version or two of Camaros produced and why!
IMHO - Chev will be so late , so overpriced, and so off the target with this not only with the styling, but with the way they market it - that it will fail miserably(what have they done right in the last 10 or more years otherwise to make us believe they can suddenly get it right now Huh except for the Vette - and those performance toes can't be stepped on by other division models as we have been seem in the past).
Others will have their comments I'm sure - if it ever comes to be - it will be interesting to see how it will play out nonetheless.
I still don't like the car as it is now either - but I will admit that as always, styling is a very subjective and personal thing, but that is what made our North American auto industry different from the others back when the cars wars were in full swing... It may grow on me but so far and after a couple of months of pictures, I have to admit I don't have any more appreciation of it now than previously... - Randy
273  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Problems with speedometer reading on: April 04, 2006, 04:01:28 PM
  Just for anyone's information - a few tire size calculator / comparison tools to compare the effects of different sized tires and I'm sure there are better ones available out there!
 The third one is kida neat visually - stolen from my son's favorite S10 v8 site that he frequents all the time. It's amazing the difference for example a 265/70/15 to 215/60/14 would make... Doesn't solve anyone's speedo woes - just a fairly good set of tools for comparing the effects of swapping sizes.

274  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Problems with speedometer reading on: March 30, 2006, 12:38:44 PM

   I'm not up on the speedometer gearing - but as far as I'm aware the only first generation Camaro that had 15" tires was the Z 28 model.
   Again I'm not quite sure how much difference that tire upgrade in diameter would make as translated into actual mph but it obviously would be a constant amount throught the speed range...That would be in addition to any obvious error built into the original gearing for it - which all gear driven speedometer / transmissions have to greater or lesser degree.   --Randy
275  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Reproduction 1969 Camaro Coupe Shells on: February 07, 2006, 04:39:47 PM

Just my thought for the day after watching this post for a while...

   Doesn't it seem sort or crazy and ironic that the aftermarket sees a large enough market for the first gen body style to go to the expense to do all of this - yet GM doesn't see fit to try and retro / clone up a new model to satisfy those (I'm sure there is a substantial number out there) who don't want to or can't build one from scratch, yet have enough dough in hand to just buy that combo high tech / sixties feel for themselves?
   You don't see anyone repoping sixties Mustang clone bodies - maybe because there is a lack of enough interest - then again maybe the new retro model is taking up much of the slack or demand for such things and Ford is raking in the dough because they had enough forsight to do it right and in a proper timeframe...
276  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Mild Modifications / Re: Aftermarket wheels for my '68 RS/SS w 4 piston calipers? on: February 01, 2006, 11:26:23 AM
I'm having a heck of a time finding aftermarket aluminum wheels that have enough clearance on the backside to clear the hefty 4 piston calipers. The calipers stick out about 1/2" beyond the hub. The car has Cragar SS style wheels on it right now, but they're bent so I'm looking to replace them and don't want factory rally's. I don't want to use spacers or anything cheesy. Any ideas, or examples of what anyone has made work well on these cars?

  I tried quite a few versions and backspacings of American Racing wheels on my '68 Z and never found any that didn't hit the caliper right near the hub area of the wheel. These were mostly the Torque Thrust versions that I was trying to fit (the bent spoke variant) that according to many is the model that goes on Corvettes of that era which also used the 4 piston caliper style - yet none would clear!!
  The only way it appeared I was going to get a set was to order some on someone's say so, and I did come close to getting some from a dealer I met at Route 66 raceway this past Fall in Chicago, on his supposed experience that they would work...but I never got up enough courage to buy before I tried, so to speak.
   I too would be curious (not to highjack your thread here) to learn from others with prior experience of what does and does not work with this braking system, to give me a better handle on where to go with this...
   I would love to hear from anyone who has bought these in a 16" x 7" (or 8") size with a 4 3/4" backspacing as to whether the TTII's will fit well on a '67 0r '68 Zed...I've seen many pictures of these on similar SS models of these cars - there must be some way to get some to work on a Z model
   Thanks  --  Randy
277  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: block boring on: January 26, 2006, 12:36:54 PM

From what I have been told, it is better to re-sleeve than continue trying to bore. I haven't done either as of yet, boring continues to reduce the thickness of the walls decreasing the strength, I have been told it can cause, if over done, piston slap. Like I stated this is what I have been told. I'm new at this also and have gotten a ton of great information from the people here at CRG!


    Unless it is a block that has big value - boring past a certain point isn't worth the risk of hitting water or in the case of a daily driver, the over heating / ring seal problems that will likely come with it...
    Piston slap isn't created by the boring process - its just a function usually, of poorly sizing the newly bored cylinders to the new pistons that would (should) be used in the process.
    I have no experience with sleeves - but would expect that unless its a big dollar situation (read non-daily driver vehicle) that it would too cost prohibitive for most owners to do, let alone the majority of most machine / engine shops to accomplish properly and well.
    For the availability of most any small (or big - for that matter) blocks, especially for situations where the vehicle isn't a collector piece requiring matching numbers - anything over a .030" bore would probably prompt me personally to look for another subject block to spend my $$'s on - especially if the goal was to use it for a long time or under severe conditions such as racing... IMHO  --Randy
278  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 2009 Camaro Pictures on: January 14, 2006, 11:32:56 AM
I agree with Buds 396. I saw the red car yesterday at the LA Autoshow and it does have an attitude. It's much better in person than in the pics.

Just my rant for the day...

   Two schools of thought going on here obviously...

First - we should just be grateful that GN has seen fit to grace us with a new model and dust off the camaro badge to name it...

Second - we think it looks like crap because it isn't a retro model that competes with the new Mustang and Challenger retro models...

  I agree it may be nasty looking in person and perform great or better than any other manufacturer's models - but didn't the last gen of Camaros do a lot of that already? And what happened to it?
  If GM wants to gain some temporary press this new camaro model will do that. As with the new Corvette -GM technology will WOW everyone and it will spank the others in performance and new design with it's 22" wheels etc. and all and the younger crowd would love to buy one - but find out they can't for the most part because the tag will be too high. Unlike the Corvette which is only intended to be a flagship and not make GM much if any $$'s, the Camaro name will end up tarnished and interest will fade because of lagging sales - sound all too familiar? Meanwhile the Mustang (and other models) will flourish and feed those who manufacture them a steady flow of cash to buoy them through the tough times - sound again all too familiar?...
  GN doesn't see the forest for the trees and hasn't for years. If they produced a good retro model with decent mechanicals and price, they would certainly capture all of those who wish to in some small part to pay homage to the sixties when the muscle cars were king - except for those poor wayward souls who are so brand loyal that they would end up on the short stick again, just as their forefathers in the sixties and seventies did.
  Instead GM will choose to put out a hot performing, over priced model that not many can afford to buy, with looks that further splits their market...
         The only things that will be retro with this new camaro model will be:
 it will come out well after the Mustang (and others) have - just like the sixties...
 it will certainly outperform those other models - just like the sixties...
 it will capture a following that are proud to own and drive one because of styling and performance features that appeal to them - unfortunately it will be a small following - unlike the sixties...   
  The difference between now and the sixties with this model will lie in the fact that (and a lot of this may again sound all too familiar) not many will be able to afford to buy one - not enough will be attracted to it's looks to want one - and sales will lag. Because of these issues the Camaro name will again be destined for obscurity within it's model / platform year.
  With much of the same short sightedness that forced GM to abandon the last Camaro generation line, allowed them to walk away from the money making rear engine police / taxi cab market giving it exclusively to Ford, and now the design limitations that are threatening their truck lines - GM seems to be afraid to take a chance on even things that seem to be almost sure bets even in today's times. Maybe it's just a case of being overly egotistic and thinking they know better than the buying public what we really want!
  They don't seem to be able to see it through the red haze produced by all that red ink... 
  Many in this CRG group have first gen Camaros because of GM brand loyalty and design heitage - GM seems to be the ones that have forgotten both in their foreign ties to other manufacturers producing many parts and current models that make their products look like eveyone else's without much of the price advantages and /or quality built in...
Case in Point...
  There is a kid in my neighbourhood who just bought a new Mustang - slime green with black stripes, this summer. Sometimes when I see him coming down the street from a good distance,(poor eyesight, i grant you somewhat) I have to catch myself thinking it's another restored Mustang tooling around that I haven't seen before - then realize the styling of the '05 model differences and he and his new car. It's what a new retro Camaro should do for all of us GM folks - but won't obviously from these '09 camaro pictures!
 That kid loves his new car to death - covers it up nightly - doesn't even drive it if it looks remotely like it could rain, and spends an unGodly amount of time tinkering and polishing the Hell out of it. He went way in the hole to get it NOT because he was a Ford fanatic, (he traded his lowered Mazda pimpmoblile in on it) but because it looks like all of those cars he has seen in magazines for years restored. It reminds me just how I felt about my new '68 when I was the same age.
  I almost selfishly wish GM would do the same, just so I could see through my own eyes how I would have looked to someone my age now - 37 years ago! - Randy   
279  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: 2009 Camaro Pictures on: January 07, 2006, 09:34:35 PM
   If that is supposed to what we have all been waiting for - its a huge disappointment to me at least. The new Mustang although much moderized, still has a lot more styling built into the basic shape of the body itself that lets you know in no uncertain terms what it is and it's heritage at a single glance.
   This new camaro look, (I'm using no capital 'c' intentionally here) if the picture shown is a good representation, aside from the induction hood, eggcrate grille, some side window shape, and the rear quarter immitation grilles doesn't give much of a '69 let alone earlier model feel in my estimation - rather it looks a lot like it could be more of a knockoff of one of the new Chrysler models than an early Camaro design.
    I know I'm may be being a bit anal about it - but after having waited this long and watching GM act on it well after just about anybody else who has chosen to do retro models has them out - I would have expected something better. Considering how the GM design guys already had lots good stuff to work from with their own first gen designs over the Ford and Chrysler people in my honest opinion, I would consider they have dropped the ball again if this one ever comes to be...
   As proven with the last generation of Camaros, you can throw in great mechanicals and at decent prices - but if it isn't dressed in a body package that appeals to the masses - it won't sell squat!   
    I still think it looks like it could be hiding a FWD chassis - please tell me my worst fears are not going to come true in that respect... --Randy
280  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: 68 cacaro rear spring, front mount. on: November 28, 2005, 05:06:23 PM

   All that holds the front spring bracket to the body is three captured or clip nuts and their bolts... Seems hard to believe - but thats all there is to keep it all together. The spring bracket locates up into a reinforced pocket in the floor section as you I'm sure have seen and the three bolt and captured nut arrangements per side just help keep everything in place. Cutting the bolt heads off with a dremel, grinder, or fire wrench is the only way to remove them if the nuts are spining - getting the remaining bits out isn't easy but can be done if your patient enough, but not necessary normally...     --Randy-- 
281  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: Ben & Lana Wenzel in Automobile Accident on: November 24, 2005, 05:00:38 AM

I just wanted to let all of you know that Ben and Lana Wenzel were in an automobile accident yesterday. I don't know all of the details right now, only that Ben is okay but Lana is in the hospital. I will post any new information as it becomes available. Ben has been like a big brother and mentor to me for many years, please keep both Ben and Lana in your prayers over this Thanksgiving weekend.

For those that don't know Dave and Ben Wenzel, they race a 1967 Z28 in stock eliminator that Ben purchased brand new (only 602 were produced). The Wenzel Brothers had an incredible 2005 season winning the division and finishing 8th in world points.

Jerry MacNeish
Camaro Hi-Performance

  Jerry - Sorry to hear about the Wenzel's - my wishes for a speedy recovery from this ordeal for both of them...
        They are very nice people who I was fortunate to meet at the Route 66 race in Chicago this Fall. I had seen pictures of their car posted on the web in past years and when I spotted it parked in a trailer in the pits I immediately stopped and introduced myself as a 'fellow Z owner' (although '68 version). They and their nephew were very accomodating in discussing the car and its long and unique history with with me. This all occurred just after Ben broke out in the finals of their class by a couple of thousands. and even though obviously bummed out by the outcome, he still took the time to accomodate my many questions and put up with my picture taking...
        True racers - genuinely nice people - real treasures in NHRA drag racing and the Camaro community. 
282  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: 68 rear bumper blues on: October 29, 2005, 01:39:03 AM

   John & Arno:

    Thanks for your input on these pieces. It sounds like a lot of the feedback I've received is fairly true and I should be grateful to those in the business of selling bumpers that have been honest in their assessments of them, to me...
    I hope in the future that someone would come out with quality pieces (would imagine there is a fairly big market for whoever ends up producing some good stuff) but until then, I guess I for one will have to wait - as shipping alone from my area into the States for rechroming would be very costly and they would most likely end up back here worse than they originally left.
   Thanks again for your responses...   Randy     
283  Camaro Research Group Discussion / Restoration / Re: 68 rear bumper blues on: October 27, 2005, 02:07:03 PM


      I can't respond with any definative info regarding your question about the fit of the bumpers you have - but I have been for some time been considering new repop bumpers for my '68 Z and was wondering how you would rate the quality of the reproduction bumper finish compared to original?
      I have heard many horror stories from just about all of the distributors of these things who cared to be honest enough in remarking about how the chrome and fit couldn't compare with NOS or original stuff and honestly it has prevented me from buying any to this point. Most responses were along the lines of "if you want good stuff or your car is show quality have your originals rechromed as it's the only way to get any decent ones these days other than NOS ($$$) ones". If I could find a reputable rechromer within reasonable distance to me I would probably have done this some time ago, but...
      Aside from your problems fitting yours (maybe in some part due to the issues I had heard about and possibly not) how would you rate the overall chrome / finish quality?
                                                                                                                                    Thanks for your trouble --Randy--
284  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: attention nutmeggers on: October 19, 2005, 04:58:39 PM
Click on your name, on the left side under Modify Profile, click on Forum Profile Information.  I have a pic of my car on my personal web page, so I just used the "I have my own pic" option and typed in the link.  i don't know if the upload option works or not but you might try it.  Good luck.

   Thanks - I have tried the using 'my own picture' option a taking one off my hard drive and even tried using a file picture as small as 20kb thinking it must be the file size that it didn't like, with no luck - although the profile section doesn't stipulate a size limitation if there in fact is one... It must be something else I'm not doing correctly I guess.
   Is there any section that I may have missed that defines file (picture) size limitations for general posting or attaching files into the message body so I'll know what to expect if I try that?
285  Camaro Research Group Discussion / General Discussion / Re: attention nutmeggers on: October 19, 2005, 03:25:33 PM

   Off topic some here I grant you - and probably a really dumb question which I may be embarassed I asked - but...

             How do you get those neat avitars (think that it is what they are called) to work for you. I searched for how to set one up in the user profile set up info and maybe its just me - but I didn't see anything that mentioned one or hinted as to how to make them work. Thanks from an obviously not so literate computer-type...   --Randy--
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