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Messages - Rich

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Please read the L30/M20 article...

Originality / Re: Where are the part #'s ???
« on: October 07, 2006, 07:21:33 PM »
There are sets of the Fisher ODs in GM Legal; one of our former members touched them, and copied a few pages and passed a copy to me.  But he wasn't able to get a full set.  (He was distracted by personal issues at the time as well, and I was never clear if he *couldn't* get them, or simply *didn't* get them.)  You have any pull there John?

In my old version of my L30/M20 article I attempted to collate and correlate the available axle information of the time.  The footnotes in it come generally from the Chevrolet P&A 30, but we have never been able to verify the background of those note by anything else.  There does appear to be some truth to them, but based on more recent CRG database checks the P&A30 notes don't appear to be 100% accurate.  Which is, in part, why I pulled the axle stuff out of the CRG article.

I call the old article old because it is old.  I note in the CRG article that the CRG article supercedes the old one, and I do this because I want you to read the new one, not the old one.

I pulled the axle info out of the newer version maintained here at CRG because we've done so much new axle work since then that it wasn't worth trying to keep it separately current in this article.  That doesn't help the everyday reader, I'm afraid, as we haven't published all the axle stuff yet, but it may come out this year.

I haven't looked to see if Alan has updated CBTN recently, but his previous axle info was fairly weak (as was the info in my older article), and unless he has found the original axle plant records, I look for the eventual CRG info to be more accurate with regard to axle codes for Camaro.


Originality / Re: 68 SS Hubcaps
« on: September 09, 2006, 02:55:10 AM »
Same pic as in other manuals.  It being predominately line-art, I'm not swayed one way or the other by it.  It's function was to allow a part man to distinguish one cover from another to ensure he had the right cover from the selection on the shelf, and typically those level of details were omitted.

But I could use it to construct an argument that the dealer grabbed the argent covers to match the picture, thus putting the wrong covers on the car. ;)

I'm not insisting these aren't the covers that were supplied by the factory, but if you've ever spent time around a car dealership, even a small one, there are plenty of opportunities for wheel cover swaps to be made after the car is removed from the hauler and sent to the clean-up and prep crew before customer delivery.


Decoding/Numbers / Re: Stamping question... Hidden Vin ???
« on: September 09, 2006, 02:36:37 AM »
It's apparently a 1965 Impala that has been converted to a Camaro...

Just kidding... ;)

Decoding/Numbers / Re: X-55 question need help
« on: September 09, 2006, 02:34:48 AM »
You'll have to dig out and post all the numbers before anyone can offer even a starting opinion.  Need VIN, trim tag, all motor numbers, rear end numbers, etc.  Look at all the details on the page and compare item by item for your car.

Originality / Re: Correct Hood Hinge Finish
« on: September 09, 2006, 02:27:36 AM »
Like the blurry photo, on the hood latch springs (not hood hinge springs), I haven't yet seen a survivor car that didn't have the black painted latch spring.

Originality / Re: 68 SS Hubcaps
« on: September 09, 2006, 02:23:30 AM »
I believe all you say Steve.  Argent caps were installed on your car at the dealer when it was new.  The question is, was that normative for 68 Camaro at that point in time?  Dunno.  I believe most people believe - with photo evidence to support it - that for most of the year the black ring version was normative.  I'm not going to rule out a late year change (as you are suggesting regarding your grille), but there are enough other possibilities that a lot more research would be required.

Not fully related, but as example of how confusing it can get, I just re-looked at "Chevy's Classy Chassis", a photo essay of nominally original S. Cal cars published in 1981.  So at the time the photos were taken the cars were no more than 13 years old (probably several years younger) and most with the original owners.  The principle 68 SS/396 they document has the non-SS P01 wheel covers on it.  Definitely non-normative.  An after delivery add-on, or a dealer mistake?  Who knows.  Car belonged to an Ed Boortz of El Cajon Cal, if anyone still knows his whereabouts (he's not in our db).


Research Topics & Reports / Re: 68 RS center grille
« on: September 09, 2006, 01:50:24 AM »
I haven't forgotten you all, but I can't tell you how busy I am, and you're plugging away at this fine without me.  The more you refine things the better.  If you can home in on a particular few weeks as you seem to be trending to, I can select a chunk of RS cars (no need to focus only on SS/RS) from the database (that Kurt and Daniel patiently maintain) and do an emailing to see who (with valid non-bouncing emails) will respond and still have their car and are willing to help further, and pass those on to Steve/Ed.  Then we can also do the same thing with some selected spot-checks of high-quality original data cars from that point to the end of production to make sure the trend is consistent.  I would recommend you also track NOR vs LOS to ensure there wasn't a plant supplier difference.

Welcome to CRG research... ;)


Originality / Re: Correct Hood Hinge Finish
« on: September 04, 2006, 04:15:10 PM »
Os-pho (a rust remover) also works.  Removes light rust and leaves a light phosphate finish. Also, remember that the factory finishes were not as repeatible as what you commonly see on show cars.

Note that the spring itself needs to be gloss (or near gloss) black.

Research Topics & Reports / Re: 68 RS center grille
« on: September 04, 2006, 12:56:43 PM »
Yes - I can tell where Steve is headed.  Interesting thought, and one that we'd need to find several very original cars of late build to deal with.

I'm interested in the idea, but I've got about 50 irons in the fire, so I can't spend a lot of intense time on this, but I'll send this back to the core group and ask for some help and a reminder of where we last left this.  If the PM can't resolve this, I'll look closer at the db to see if there are any other good-quality candidate cars for further review.  If the contacts are agreeable, I may pass on that info to you guys to go on the hunt with.

The question about weathering is a valid one and another complicating factor.


Research Topics & Reports / Re: 68 RS center grille
« on: September 04, 2006, 02:02:36 AM »
MPC721A is Dec 71.  Collectively the CRG has a number of the other Canadian MPCs, mostly through the efforts of Greg Davies.  They were issued several times per year.  I'm almost sure we've tracked this grille, but we didn't document the results.

That grille pic is so up close that I wouldn't be able to testify if it was a Camaro for sure, but assuming it is, it is a 68.  The 67 spacing is more square, and the vertical and horizontal ribs are essentially flush, whereas the 68 grille has a rectangular pattern and the horizontal ribs are significantly raised above the vertical ribs (I would assume for the purpose of easy application of the chrome to the horizontal ribs only, as it would have been difficult otherwise).


Research Topics & Reports / Re: 68 RS center grille
« on: September 03, 2006, 06:16:34 PM »
This is a case where GM didn't supercede the part, but instead altered it to apply as a service part for both 67 and 68.  GM just removed the chrome from the PN and (as the MP721A notes) added instructions to "paint as required".

I believe Steve feels certain that his original grille didn't have the chrome.  The only question really is if the change was made mid-year before end of the 68 model, and I don't believe it was, though I'd have to check the part manuals to see when the 67 grille ceased being available.

Research Topics & Reports / Re: 68 RS center grille
« on: September 03, 2006, 02:32:00 AM »
About 70 68 SS/RS big-blocks in the db.  Since people change both cars and emails, we'd be lucky if the contact info was current for half of those, and there would be fewer still responses.  It's a lot of work to do this - we've done it in the past a few times, but it's like trying to herd rabbits.  What's the specific question?

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Transmission, Rear End and Trim tag
« on: August 21, 2006, 01:06:30 AM »
The ACC tags were pre-1964 vintage tags applied to 68s that were not warranted to be in compliance with FMVSS.  These included some export cars, as well as the like of Yenkos.   See the last sentence of the first paragraph below.


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